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Steel Framed barn anyone
The notion of running air lines below ground has been tried up here for years, inevitably, they never work.
Being the lowest point of the air system condensed moisture gathers there because of the cool (or cold up here) ground they run through, especially in warm, humid weather. The result is water being forced through or into everything, air tools included. This is a MAJOR pain if you intend to use an air sprayer for painting something, it also makes a sand blaster clog constantly. If they are steel lines they rot through in short order, and if they are rubber the constant freeze/thaw cycle does them in almost as fast and they are a nightmare to re-run after there is something else in the conduit like electric lines.
As for self-welded fastening, I wouldn't count on having any insurance coverage if it collapsed later unless you are an AWB certified welder and have the welds tested & certified and an engineer sign of on the building design.
In some areas there may also be issues with the strength of the building for reasons of snow-loading or hurricane-proofing. The big concern especially with wind damage is not your building coming apart per se, it is the welfare of the poor sod who gets hit by a piece of siding going 100+ mph, I'm not sure I would want that liability, and you can bet your insurance company won't either.
Best of luck.
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Steel Framed barn anyone
The picture of my barn are still on the post. I would have to rerun the numbers but I doubt I have 20K in materials with full water and sewer and electric. I would need only about 900 dollars to insulate the roof and it would be fully insulated. The barn is 44 x 60 on the out side dimensions. It certainly will not blow away in a storm as it is insulative concrete forms. It has already seen 100 mile an hour winds.
The truss structure is very strong and relatively inexpensive.
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Steel Framed barn anyone
Murf;
For low pressure clean air or gases we often used swaglok compression fittings with plastic tubing or copper tubing (plumbing). We would often make dead drops off the house air with drains, set our regulator and then run the other tubing.
A few years back I used the PEX tubing and bander to make up a mannifold for my portable air pump. I considered it the solution to running air around the shop as it will not rust and will take the pressure and is not affected by oil. I would not cost much more than 100$. Now if I can only fine the time to work in the shop and run it.
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Steel Framed barn anyone
I think that the problem with the compressed air that Murf was referring to is that the dewpoint of the water vapor in the compressed air is higher than the dewpoint of the air that was compressed. What that means is that in many (most) cases, compressing air will cause liquid water to settle out in the bottom of the storage tank and in the distribution lines. This happens when the dewpoint of the compressed air is higher than the room temperature.
Plastic lines will help with rusting in the lines, but won't directly solve the condensation problem that can damage pneumatic tools.
I use a drain valve on my storage tank that vents the water everytime that the compressor motor operates. It bleeds as such a slow rate (5 CFH) that there is virtually no compressed air capacity lost. I also use a refrigerated air dryer (compressed air dehumidifier) between the compressor and the distribution lines. Most people will probably not need to go with the refrigerated dryer, but the automatic drain is really worth doing. If you can keep your reservoir of compressed air drained of most water, it will help a lot in the rest of your system.
Taking air taps off the TOP of the distribution pipes and adding drip legs will take care of most moisture problems in a normal system.
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Steel Framed barn anyone
AC5ZO;
I guess I was not clear; I have had to deal with compressed air that is pumped through the underground tunnels and had 3" air mains full of water.
I have also set up desscicant and refrigerant dryers, nitrogen generators and step up air pumps, but most of this was for instuments or automated equipment. I did not think this pertained.
I was considering the plastic lines more of a cost and contamination solution. The majority of the contaminates in the lines are from the water and oil reacting inside the iron pipe. You can easily buy 100 ft rolls of PEX tubing and plump for air with only a few fittings and connections.
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Steel Framed barn anyone
I was hesitant to use any kind of Poly, even PEX, because of the extreme temperature swings, between winter & summer the interior of the shop ranges by well over 140 deg. F., that and sometimes it has been used at temp.'s below freezing even. I will be heating it to a constant mimimum of about 45 deg. F. from now on, then just warming it up when I am out there. Previously when I was away for much of the winter it was unheated.
I plumbed the whole shop with 1/2" copper water pipe. I used 80 grit emery cloth to roughen all surfaces before soldering to ensure a solid 'bite' between the two surfaces for safety's sake. I also put a ball valve on each run off the distribution pipe, as well as where the distribution pipe meets the compressor so I can isolate areas for maintenance, etc., or for splitting the distribution system.
This has proved handy several times when I wanted to do something with air in the wood shop, like painting, while somebody else was doing something like sand-blasting in the yard. I 'back feed' the wood shop with a small portable compressor I have for field work, filling tires, etc., via a double male fitting I made up for such purpose. This means I can have two totally seperate systems working at the same time.
The relative large inside diameter of the copper also means that on long runs there is little if any loss, this can be important with high demand uses like painting or sand-blasting. Of course the other benefit of copper pipe is that rust through is not a concern.
Best of luck.
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Murf the cross linked poly is rated for 180 F at pressure so I doubt air is a problem. Low temperature is probably -60C before embrittlement as that is the Tg but have not seen stats on the crosslinked material.
It certainly will withstand freezing with water in it. I don't know how far down it would be OK as it doesnot get real cold here, but with air I would think -30 F would be no problem if not below that.
Obviously this is not a concern for you Murf, with the copper already but maybe others may want to try. I would use the banded fittings though.
Peters
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I'm sure the PEX is more than up to the task. I never even thought of using it though. At the time I was putting it in I was thinking more of speed and convenience, the copper was available at the local building center and very inexpensive.
I have used PEX for in-floor radiant heating in my cottage though, it worked great for that. I do know it was a tough stuff but freezing was a moot point because the system uses an anti-freeze mixture anyways, it serves both to raise the boil point and protect the system when it's shutdown.
Best of luck.
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Steel Framed barn anyone
Where I live, there is only one type of special PVC pipe that is rated for compressed air service. I believe that it has a special green color to distinguish it from ordinary PVC. It also has its own high strength fittings.
PEX should work, but I don't think that it is approved for used with compressed air (only water) here. For short runs we can use the nylon or PE hose with compression fittings, but it is rated for several hundred PSI. Losses are high with small PE and Nylon tubing, so you must keep the lengths short.
I go with copper, because it is virtually the same price as the special code rated PVC and was only a little bit harder to install.
I have seen people use regular 1/2 PVC to set up air lines, but I can tell you that it is a very bad idea. Even though it may be rated for several hundred PSI, some plastics like normal PVC fracture, splinter and release the pressurized contents violently and may propel splinters of plastic at dangerous velocities. I also have my doubts about some of the quality of fittings at some local home supply stores. In a recent water system I installed, 100% of the female adapters that I used on PVC eventually failed. I had to replace all of them with male adapters which work and metallic female pipe couplings. The consequences are higher for pipe failure with compressed air, so the ratings in the code are much more rigorous.
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I had a fitting blow off a rubber whip line, someone had patched it with a barb-type fitting but the Tridon steel hose clamp used to fix it in position failed. The fitting went across the shop then bounced most of the way back, luckily there was nobody in it's path.
Let me tell you I was VERY glad to have a shut-off nearby.
With 100 gallons of reservoir tanks at 130psi I think it might have whistled for some time before it drained the system.
Best of luck.
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09-03-2003, 13:51 
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