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 11-27-2003, 19:31 Post: 69805
TomG

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 Transfer Switches

The first thing I'd say is to check with an electrical supplier that sells to contractors or your utility to find out what type units are approved. The equipment on the site you mentioned may well be fine, but just because something is UL approved doesn't mean a particular utility accepts it. An electrical supplier won't guarantee what they sell will pass inspection but what they handle ordinarily is approved for use in there area and they know what contractors buy.

To make sure were talking the same thing, when I say generator panel, I mean something that is wired as a branch circuit on a service panel. The entire service does not pass through such a panel, and that's what I have. When I say transfer panel I mean a unit that is installed in the service line and the entire service load flows through the unit. The site you mention may not use the same terminology. The site does seem to contain some hybrids of these two types. The automatic start type that manages the load seems interesting.

There are advantages to each type. In general, transfer switches feed the entire service panel and they do not disturb existing branch circuit wiring, but most people won't have a generator large enough to carry the entire normal load. The load must be managed by selectively turning off breakers. Installation of transfer switches ordinarily require a temporary service disconnect by the utility. Instillation can be messy for an underground service where the feed from the meter base goes into the back of a combination service panel. The choice can be either moving the panel or the meter.

Generator panels operate as a branch circuit and may provide up to 125A and more than 20 branch circuits. However, installing them does require moving circuits from the service to the generator panel and some lines almost always must be spliced and lengthened. My 60A -generator panel provides 20 circuits and was less expensive than a 200A transfer switch, but prices may have changed since backup power became more popular.






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 11-29-2003, 06:05 Post: 69913
TomG

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 Transfer Switches

Harvey:

It's sort of ironic that I was about to comment before your reply was posted but was outside with a cigar when our power went down and knocked me off internet. So, here's your post first on the list after I get power back.

I've installed 3 new services, a number of new panels and sub-panels and a slew of branch circuits--all as my own contractor and all with permits and inspections. I've had no problems with the inspectors and they've been helpful if anything. Installing a generator panel on an existing service panel isn't a bad job and I think it's within the capabilities of many homeowners with a bit of study in a 'wiring made simple' book. The components required really aren't very expensive.

My generator panel also is a Federal panel. It sounds like they built basically the same panel I've got into a single 200A-combination panel. That sounds ideal if a new service panel is being installed as well and that's probably what I would have gotten if one had been available at the time.

I can't remember if it was Ken that had problems with an inspector but I've thought about that story. I wonder if the system was an automatic start type? If so, that may explain the inspector's attitude. The inspector limited the circuits on generator to the total peak load demands. You basically can't have many circuits on generator and use a small generator unless somebody's around to shut some circuits down. That's why the automatic power management panel on the site you mentioned sounded interesting (but it may not be approved everywhere).






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 11-30-2003, 06:40 Post: 69962
TomG

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Ken: I guess I was hoping to come up with an explanation that makes sense to me. I think codes applied to backup generators are a fairly new experience and there aren't specific codes yet. Sounds like you got hit with the most restrictive interpretation possible and that's too bad. To me it makes no sense to apply codes intended for permanent continuously equipment that's suppose to last 40 years or so in service to emergency backup equipment. Even so peak loads aren't used for many circuits to calculate requirements.

There's a good chance it's not really the inspector who may be working under policies that also don't make a lot of sense. The shotgun litigation fashion has caused many public agencies to adopt some really nutty policies. Whatever the reason I guess it doesn't do you much good now and that's too bad.

Billy: An inspector told me once that most inspectors wouldn't intentionally look at equipment except what's on the permit. He did say that if he saw anything really dangerous then he'd have to do his job, but it's to my interest that he does his job. I agree with that but there aren't any guarantees. I'm lucky I've had only good experiences I guess.

KA: My inspectors gave me the same break on inspection costs they give contractors. They have enough confidence in what I do so that they don't necessarily look at everything or make detailed inspections for both the rough and finished wiring. If there are additions between the rough plan and the finished wiring they sign off on the permit anyway. That's probably the reason for the differences in cost. It's sort of self-defeating if nutty policies and nutty costs cause everybody in their right minds to avoid inspections like the plague. I've seen a bunch of really scary amateur work.






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