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JD History Question
Hi guys. I'd like to weigh in on this subject. My Grandpa was a dairy farmer, and had the good fortune of running his small farm through the 1920's up to the end of 1950. He had three Johnny Poppers: a 1937 Model B two bottom on steel which he converted to rubber, a 1949 "styled" Model A three bottom on rubber, and a 1941 Model BO Lindeman crawler (which he hated and quickly sold because it was "too damned slow!" . The 1937 Model B had only about 12hp at the drawbar and 15 (I think) on the flywheel. The '49 Model A was 16/32hp, was heavier than the B, and was his last full size tractor because his farm failed. Both the B and BO started on gasoline, the tank being the small one found closest to the driver. The kerosene tank was the larger fuel tank and it was forward of the gas tank. I remember that they were both what were described as being General Purpose, Multi-fuel, two cylinder, horizintal spark engines having magneto ingition and "sparking plugs." The '49 had electric start (electric lights also!!) but could also be started like the '37 B and '41 BO. Starting went something like this: open gas selector, run flywheel to indicator mark for start (TDC I think), advance spark, switch on, spin the flywheel, and it would generally pop on the first go. I think there was also a hand crank that almost nobody used, at least not on Gramps' farm. Each of the machines had an oil pressure gauge and a temp gauge. The temp gage was an "add on" for the B, and once the indicator reached the warm mark the selector valve was turned from "gas" to "kerosene," and the spark was then retarded. Neither engine would run for beans on just kerosene so like most Popper Pilots Gramps had his own brew. These were still low rpm (1120rpm) spark engines, and not diesels. To the best of what the old timers left in my family can remember Deere didn't offer a production diesel until the Model R in 1949 or 1950. Gramps didn't like them because they were Nazi engines, in his opinion. It was said to have been an offshoot of the production two cylinder multi-fuel spark engine but was a true diesel. At any rate, be it a multi-fuel or diesel, they were back-breaking mean machines to work all day with only an umbrella for shade, even with the hydraulic hitch. The B and A also had a horrible habit of wanting to flip, a real nasty trait of tricycle configured machines. One other thing real quick, a page my Mom saved from our 1935 farm records show gasoline was 12 cents a gallon, kerosene was 6 cents a gallon, and the migrant workers earned $1.15 for a sixty hour week. I doubt if any ever had a tractor or even knew how to farm with one. Funny, my compact diesels are plush in comparison. I wonder what Gramps would think if he could have a chance to work them? This information comes to you from an 83 year old Uncle, a 78 year old Mom, and my own 50 something mind. I hope it was of some help and interest.
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JD History Question
Thank you everybody. I knew there was more to learn. You can see from this how quickly we forget even recent history, now only 60 or so years ago.
In my case, my father ran a dairy farm from 42-52 but he lives a ways away and I am not sure if he would know the answer to the question.
At 78 he it is a little tough to get him on the internet. Even hooking him up to the satellite was a chore.
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Yes, real good information. My father in law also described something that had to be done with the four magnetos to start the Fordson. I didn't quite catch it and don't know if it was a timing or a sequencing sort of thing.
I'm trying to remember if the JD my grandfather had in the early 50’s was a single or twin. It seemed pretty new to me but then my grandfather took good care of equipment. I do remember the sound though. I'm thinking that maybe JD should get a copyright for the sound, as did Harley (or so I'm told).
Seems like too many companies were using recordings of Harleys in their commercials so Harley protected their sound. Nothing sounds quite like a reciprocating twin--even if I've never understood exactly what that is.
As a matter of curiosity, I always thought the spark on crank start cars were retarded for starting and advanced for running. I suppose it could work the other way for a low rpm tractor engine, or maybe I just never had it right in the first place. No matter, that's the sort of detail that's easy to think one thing and type another, which of course is something I do quite regularly here.
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I can testify to the instability of the "B" models. I flipped one when I was five years old. I didn't get dinner that night and couldn't sit for a couple of days. Glad to finally know it wasn't entirely my fault.
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I can tell you it was the International Harvester Farmall MD that was started on gas and switched to diesel with a change in the combustion chamber volume to increase the compression ratio. I don't know how long IH continued this practice (Super MD probably did, but not sure about the 400, 450, etc.). You can imagine that this was cheaper to buy and maintain than the pony start diesels that John Deere was selling.
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I have a friend with a stable of old IH in Cloverport Kentucky. I was suprised at how well the concept works.
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Hey Rubin, I called on my friend last night who owns one of those M-D's. It's been in his family since they bought it new. He doesnt know what model replaced it. Or how long it was in production. He has restored it, mostly paint and sheet metal, but the engine runs fine. He remebers as a child that it was a bit of a dog compared to the gasoline M and the super MTA that they also owned an used to run on a regular basis.
Here is another history lesson I learned while talking to his father while they were showing me all the tractors in the stable.
During and shortly after WWII. New tractors were hard to get. Dealers would get one in and charge an exhorbanant price. The Govt. stepped in and put in price ceilings on tractors.
The scenerio he described was as follows:
The dealer would get a new tractor in, he would then hold an auction.
When the bidding price reached the Govt. limits the dealer would then throw in the auction ring a bale of straw or hay or some other worthless commodity and then sell the package (Tractor and Bale of hay) at a price that would be well above manufacturers suggested list price!!!
I was astounded!!!!!! He said that this was a faily common practice in the mid-west, and that the old IH "B" he pointed to in the corner was purchased that way. He even made a 100 mile trip to Indianapolis to take place in the auction where he bought it.
He told me that due to the war effort, Tractor manufactures had switched most of their production to products needed for the war, which was largely due to Govt. intervention. It seems that the country wes going through some economic hard times (remember the deppretion?) before the war and the govt. contracts actually were a godsend to manufacturers. Building Tractors became a lower prioroty, then shortly after the war, it took some time to get production levels high enough to meet the demand.
I mean no disrespect with the following remark, I am just adding it for to help show the changes in our society over time and what our country has suffered to get the great place that it is today.
Can you imagine, after running the bid up at an action to twice list price on a 15 hp tractor and a sack of oats, and explaining this great deal to your wife??? The thought of that was the first thing that crossed my mind.. Glad I never had to do that.
This has been one fun subject... I love this board!!!
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JD History Question
Rubin: Thanks for the comment. It's about the first confirmation I've heard in adult life about the IH gas/diesel engines. I'm happy to know that as a kid, I seemed to have actually understood what I saw as well as the explanation that went with it.
The whole story about problems with the tractor engine was that if it ran out of diesel in the field, there was a tendency to drive it to the fuel tank on the gas cycle. The engine might then be shut down without returning it to the diesel cycle. There was a valve that extended into the cylinder for gas operation that became hot during the gas cycle since the valve was open and the head couldn't transfer heat to its seat. The valve would warp if the engine was left to cool down while in the gas cycle, and then the engine wouldn't function as a high compression diesel engine.
Of course, I believe I heard this story in a university freshman dorm, and those are places for lots of stories.
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04-30-2002, 18:12 
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