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Poor Man s Transit
Actually I hate to insert a simple idea into such deep thinking & calculations....but I will anyways. The simplest way to do any sort of grading is to measure the horizontal distance between two points and the vertical difference between the same points. Now merely divide the vertical difference, in decimals of a foot, meters in our case Tom, by the horizontal distance between them. The resulting answer is the slope expressed as a percentage. IE, two points 100' apart have a horizontal differential of 4', therefore there is a 4% slope, which by the way is the ideal for surface water drainage, agressive enough to handle decent amounts of water, but will limit erosion, etc. The other tip is to convert inches to decimals, multiply the number of inches by 0.0833333 (or 1 divided by 12), so 6" * 0.083333 = 0.50', and of course if you want to be more accurate, you can include the fractions of the inch too, IE 4 3/8" = 4 + (3/8 = 0.375" or 4.375" or 0.3645831875', easy huh........as always, Best of luck.
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Poor Man s Transit
This is my setup for a total of $100. I'll set it on a sturdy surface and marked graduations on a 2x4 painted white. Reads dead nuts level when checking across my pond (300feet) the laser dot is about 1.5 inches in dia at that point requiring me to estimate the center though.
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Poor Man s Transit
I think it's more likely my ignorance that's in question but this is how I learn about things. My sense is that with a transit that has vertical capabilities, a given angle can be set and a grade of that angle should sight to the same reference mark anywhere on that grade. If I've got it right, that seems a fast and easy way to check a bunch of points, but is probably not something I could justify unless I did a lot of grading.
Murf: I made the water level to be able to measure the vertical and horizontal distances. As I'm finding out, a laser level would do the job too and not break the bank. I am aware that angles and percent grade can be calculated from the two measurements. Thanks for pointing out that I got caught up in angles when I should be thinking of percent grade, which would eliminate the trig tables. Guess I got to face the possibility that deep down I really want to drag the trig tables out of the basement.
So, all I have to figure is the existing drop per 100' and then how much more I need to grade off at the bottom to equal a given percent grade and how to make a straight line in between. Thanks for the 4% rule. I probably would have used 3%, which I think is the slope for septic leech lines.
The reason for doing this is that water hangs around the house too long during spring thaw. The ground next to the foundations thaw first, and the melt tends to run down the foundation wall and into the basement through the well feed. I think most of the houses around here were simply plunked down on more or less level spots, and nobody bothered with back-grades as I think they’re called.
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Poor Man s Transit
Tom;
As I recall grading granite can be tough and the water tends to follow the cracks in the rock. I always found a big boulder where I needed to level.
Don't you love the Shield?
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Poor Man s Transit
Though I've never lived around much large granite I have a good friend that does and he has complained many times to me about that very problem. He takes care of some of his by giving them to local contractors for the removal. And, Yes I do love the shield.
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Poor Man s Transit
TomG,
I liked the idea, and yes lazers are getting very affordable now, but I too sometimes prefer the old ways. sometimes useing simple tools like that give us great insight on other things in our lives.
When I was a child on the farm, may neighbor was full of old, simple ideas like that, I credit much of my practical knowledge to him.
When I was 15, he hired me to help him build a new farrowing house for his sows, he was 70 years old and was so much of an optomist that he thought he needed to update his operation!!!!
He used a level just as you described throughout the whole project!!! it worked great, and without fail, no dead batterys, no bad connections, and even in the rain or bright sun. We used it for almost everything, except making sure posts were plumb. For that he had an old home made level that his father had made useing a glass tube from and old dairy he worked in at nights. I checked it several times with my good store bought level and it earned my confidence.
This guy had so much old knowledge it was increadable. A few years after that, I was making a paddle wheel for an old grist mill that our local historical society was trying to restore.
He laid out the whole wheel useing nothing more than an old compass with no markings on it, a tape measure, and a pencil. He never stopped to do any calculations, nor did he use any tables. The wheel fit together perfectly after I cut all the lumber at his marks. It looked great!!
It wasn't untill I went into high school that I realized what he was actually doing was geometry and his way was a heck of a lot simpler, although not near as accurate. But at the slow speed of the wheel involved, it was the quickest and best way. We had no blueprints to go buy and by the time we could get someone to put some prints together, we were done. It made little difference that the wheel was 12' 3/8" in diameter instead of just 12' which is what it was supposed to be when someone found the old plans for the mill two years later.
But now we have CAD programs and computors, and they are pretty slick. But the old ways sometimes will surprise you!!
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Poor Man s Transit
Mr. Ethics: there does seem to be two basic approaches to doing things--analytic and eye, for want of better descriptions. The analytic thinks of separate pieces and needs to measure everything while the eye just grasps the whole thing and it either looks right or it doesn't. The eye is almost poetic in nature, and we seem to have lost much of the eye in modern times. I can certainly appreciate building a reasonable true wheel by eye. Timber estimators and livestock buyers positively amaze me.
Despite having worked most of my career doing the analytic thing, I still prefer to use my eye. The water level idea probably is a compromise. I’ll probably rely on my eye for the short grades away from the house, but I'll use the water level for the far point of a long grade along the drive. Mostly, I want to avoid grading off too much at the foot of the slope and then have to backfill it. My eye should be good enough to get a decent grade between the high and low points. With a good eye I probably wouldn’t need a level at all.
Ahh, the Shield! We may have it the best. We're along the Ottawa River where it's mostly granite, but glaciers gouged out many pockets and filled them with sand. Most people live on sand rather than rock. I don't hit many rocks with the tractor, but I can rock climb across the highway and walk for miles in bush that's never going to be worked for anything but timber.
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Poor Man s Transit
As a suggestion - Attach a pail to one end of your hose, instead of viewing the 1/4" hose at both ends. The water level will stay level in the pail, as the surface area is so much greater. Then you set the pail at the "target" level and the other end always indicates the same. Otherwise you need 2 people, one at each end to move both ends of the hose up and down.
A simple hose crimp or valve at the "far" end is all that is needed to move around, and if you lose a bit - no issue.
big_eddy
p.s. Tom G - where in the Upper Ottawa Valley . I grew up in Deep River, spent lots of time on the river.
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In the bit of fooling around I've done with the level, I did notice that repositioning one end does change the water level in the other end. For each reading I have to measure the level in each end and subtract the two. I understand the bucket idea and may rig it up depending on how much I do with the level. Thanks.
I was able to work alone by hanging each end of the tube on heavy-duty tripod stands I used to use in the sound business. I can close valves on the tube and drag the stands around and then open the valves. I may have to raise or lower the stands to place the water levels within reasonably vertical sections of the tube. Then, I just measure vertical distances to the water levels along plumb lines and along a string line between the two levels--a bit cumbersome and wanting in accuracy probably good enough for my needs.
The main value of the level so far is to demonstrate that I probably need to cut down a hill by 2' to adequately drain water from the middle of the property down the drive to the highway. However, I'm not sure I want to make a cut where I have to step up and down each time I cross the front of the property. I'm also not sure I could make that deep a cut due to white pine roots and I may have to rethink the idea. Planning and rough measurements are good. If I just started grading, I could have ended up with a grade that put more rather than less water near the house.
Ed: We're in Stonecliffe and Bissett Creek. Even further than the road to Swisha that you may remember before certain law reforms. I'm fairly new around here. My wife grew up in Deep.
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OK Tom;
I'm afraid I still a bit criptic on understanding how it works.
I leveled approximately 1 acre next to our new house and planted it in grass last week. I just eyed the level to get the slope.
I have not had any large rain to see if the water is running in the right direction. I am sure I have more slope than recommended.
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