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Yamaha Generator problem
Billy, you are right that the motor will stop if you disconnect EITHER of L1 or L2, however it is certainly not the right way to do it, nor is it safe since the 'other' leg is still 'hot' in the motor as Joel pointed out.
In some states switching a single side of 220 is not legal either. You should always use a DPDT switch and break both hots.
Best of luck.
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Yamaha Generator problem
Murf, What Joel pointed out is very true but each of my motors have their own breaker. I would never even think about working on one unless the breaker was off.
As far as the on/off switches go, I'll try to explain one type I use. Say a feed line. On the end of the feed line there's a control pan. In this control pan there's a paddle that operates a micro switch. When the feed gets low the paddle moves down straight and activates the micro switch. All the micro switch does is open or close L1 or L2 (according to which L you chose when wiring). The fans are a little harder to explain other than they all are wired into relays and the relays are controlled by a computer. Each fan has it's own relay. The relays break either L1 or L2 which shuts that fan off.
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Yamaha Generator problem
Billy, I understand how they work, I have a similar system in the milk parlour.
IMHO though, the micro switch should trip a DPDT magnetic switch, that way you have two levels of safety, first the micro switch can be only a low voltage trigger circuit, and secondly, the system is absolutely dead unless running.
Best of luck.
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Yamaha Generator problem
Murf, I guess one can't be too safe but it can get overly costly. The way I look at it is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". By the way, the micro switches I use are rated at 10 Amps and 250 VAC.
Thanks for the discussion.
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Yamaha Generator problem
If you use a 110V power source and energize one leg of a 220v circuit you have not "powered half of the circuit". A 220v single phase motor requires 220V potential difference between the two lines (L1 and L2) to complete it's circuit. Powering this with the "110v setup" as described produces 0 volts between L1 and L2. The voltage between one line and neutral is irrelevant to the motor. Here we need to draw the distinction between operation and safety issues. While prudent from a safety standpoint (Line to neutral voltage), 220v devices can draw no power from a single phase 110v supply when no connection to the second line is made (no circuit completed) - if they do you have a line to neutral or line to ground fault in the 220v device.
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I would guess this thread has become hijacked already but something I use to see (out of that work now) which many did not pay attention to is the proper wiring of a lamp or light fixture. The "live" part is the part of the center of the buld and not the outside base of the bulb. So simple but so often given no attention to. If wired backwards it is possible to touch 110 volts with some fixtures. Much like breaking just one leg of a 220 circuit. Stay safe. kt
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KThompson,
I'm not sure that I would consider this thread as being hijacked, as the conversation is relevant to all things that could cause a problem with any generator setup.
I was called to do a repair on a dental chair, which had caught on fire in a dental office. I quickly identified the problem and repaired it.
The dentist had kicked the plug and broken the wires on the cord. He removed the plug, trimmed the broken cord, and then re-installed the plug.......INCORRECTLY. POOF! Flames shot out, which burned his chair and his carpet.
On any 110vac plug, there are three wires.....black, white, and green.
Black (Hot) always goes on the gold terminal in the plug, or on the narrow male spade.
White (Neutral) always goes on the silver terminal in the plug, or on the wider male spade.
Green (Ground) is installed on the green screw in the plug, or on the round male ground connector.
Any switch that is installed in a 110vac line, such as a lamp, should be installed in the BLACK line....or the hot wire.
Any switch installed in a 220vac circuit should always break both the L1 and L2 (both hot) lines.
And a word of caution for those who run back-up generators........
Any or all of your sensitive electronic devices may be destroyed by your generator, unless your generator has a quality voltage regulator installed on it.
Some generators do not have this.
Without this voltage regulator, a sharp voltage spike from your generator will fry your television, computer and alarm clocks, as well as anything else in your home that contains digital circuitry.....such as the microwave display panel, etc.
Even a large voltage spike will not harm your blower motor on your furnace, but it could easily take out the circuit board that controls it.
When you purchase a generator, spend the extra money to get yourself a quality machine that regulates the output to a very high degree.
Joel
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Good post Joel but when you say "Any switch installed in a 220vac circuit should always break both the L1 and L2 (both hot) lines.", what could happen if you don't?
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Billy,
Nothing will happen......until somebody attempts to work on the motor, with the belief that the power is off.
Voltage Feedback is another possibility, which, under certain circumstances, occurs when a motor fails.
This is more of a safety issue than anything else, but it's also possible that if both lines aren't switched, the owner of the device could be in violation of the law.
Any resulting injury could be very costly, in either case.
Joel
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Now we're getting somewhere!
1) Nothing will happen......until somebody attempts to work on the motor, with the belief that the power is off.
Regardless of any kind of switch/s or how sophisticated, one should always make sure the power is off. That would be the same as replacing something as simple as a light switch.
2) Voltage Feedback is another possibility, which, under certain circumstances, occurs when a motor fails.
Don't know where you're going with this? If the motor fails, it fails regardless of whether this switch is on or off. What if it failed when the switch was on? There should be a breaker in there somewhere.
3) This is more of a safety issue than anything else, but it's also possible that if both lines aren't switched, the owner of the device could be in violation of the law.
This I will have to research but I'm almost certain of the answer. There's literally millions of motors wired with a single L 220v switch. I'll have to get back with you on this one.
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