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Ever use urea
In regards to all the different numbers you have received as far as amounts to apply you might consider a soil test. Theese are isually pretty cheap ($10 ish) at your local soil conservation district office or the appropriate branch of a State University. Here Michigan State does it. You get back a pretty slick print out telling you what to use in what amounts. Fall as well as spring.
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With due respect to Doc, soil testing for nitrogen content is not recommended because the results will be irrevelent, mainly for two reasons: Nitrogen leaches quickly, varying in amount available from week to week, depending on rain, weather, temperature and various other complicated factors. The second reason is that all plants consume nitrogen in different ratios from species to species and family to family. The only way to "know" exactly is to do tissue analysis of plant tissue. This tests exactly what levels are present in the plant. These levels have been quantified and are as detailed as complete blood work on a human. However, why waste $30 on tissue sampling when a good eye, common sense and a little research will give you a satisfactory result. Over fertilization is rarely a problem, especially in backfilled or longterm bare soil areas. Unless the grass is for a turf farm or some critical other area, sampling doesn't pay. But if course, if the Einstein side of you can't resist the accumalation of undigestible facts, go for it. But unless you have acquired extensive training in the basics of plant science, it would be hard to put into application the facts that are spewed forth by any type of scientific sampling.
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Well Mark L, you finally said something I disagree with. Soil sampling is important and can save you money, in the long run. You sure don't need to over fertilize. Besides wasting money on nutrients you don't need and are paying for, the excess runs off into streams.
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I think that we may still be on the same page. In large, commercial production areas whether it be hay, turf, row crop, or commodity production on many acres, definately it helps and is required. However, I was referring to a small area that is non commercial in nature making no economic sense to soil test. There are general guidelines for fertization and establishment of grass that are published by many cooperative extension offices throughout the country. In fact I live in the town that is responsible for developing 90% of all bermuda and southern turf grasses in the US. As a student studying plant science here, I worked for the experiment station here, learning much from the gurus and futher developing my knowledge in agronomy classes. I have soil tested hundreds of times in my experience. I use it and have profitted from it. Tissue sampling as well. However, Billy, standard soil tests do not provide N information because as you said, it washes away. A soil test cannot accurately assess Nitrogen levels in the soil because it is so highly mobile. The reasons for soil testing have nothing to do with monitoring for overfertilization but for just the opposite, monitoring defeciencies. In fact the truth is that the nutrients that can be monitored accurately by soil testing are relatively stable and immobile in the soil, able to build up without significant leaching. The only time P and K move significantly through the soil is if the soil washes with it. This is largely true for the secondary and micronutrients in the majority of the soil classifications found in North America.
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Nitrogen enters the ground from rain and is naturally produced from NO2 in the air during a thunder storm. Organic material from plants also contains nitrogen and it is slow released as the material decays in the soil.
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Mark L, I believe what I said was that a soil test might be beneficial. Not test the soil for nitrogen. Clearly you have a bit more experience with soil than the average bear, although I would dissagree with you on the value of a $9.00 soil test from the state University. True enough you do get a lot of unneeded info but if you let them know what you want to plant they send out a program or recommended fertilizers for both spring and fall. This can be very helpfull to someone new especially as the fellow above was told several different amounts to apply.
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Well, I think I understand your point Doc. But I have seen people get these tests back and freak because all of their readings don't peg the scale. The truth is in this case a little knowledge puffs up. Interpreting scientific data in these cases is not absolute. There are recommendations that are made in the reports that must be applied sometimes in various ways not up to a new comer.
Also, lets just think about the inexperience of someone pulling soil samples. Many people pull a plug of soil from one problem spot and put it in a bag. NOT a good thing to do for good results. The correct method assumes that one sample bag is representative of several acres. This means that a sample must be random and in several locations per acre. Then samples must be mixed thoroughly in a bucket and then and only then should the representative sample be drawn for the bucket and placed in a bag. OH, lets not forget the possibility of cross contamination of a sample by using a galvanized container(ZN and Fe) or one possibly that previously held fertilizer or in some cases manure. Think about it. Small timers would benefit from advice and gentle experience than face the challenge of performing a test like this and then be left to figure out its practical applications.
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I do see your point yet I do not completely agree. It seems 6 0f one 1/2 dozen the other. The fellow above was haveing difficulty getting good advice or it varied so much the cost of fertilizer out weighs the cost of a test, easily. I guess I just dont know too many people who can look at the soil and just instantly tell me what I need. I'm sure there are those who can. I just dont know them. The soil conservation districts here give out base hand books with directions and sample bags. I would think that most would be able to handle such a simple task but your point is certainly valid and there certainly are those who do not take the time to find out how to take the test properly or fail to understand the results, but then there are those who just use the wrong products or none at all.
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Sorry Mark L. I thought we were talking about fertilizer in general. That's what I get for not reading the whole thread.
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