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Automatic Better Economy Than Manual
I would agree that a computer controlled automatic programmed for best economy *could* beat a stick. My opinion is that in the real world they don't. I'm very skeptical that this Toyota with a five speed automatic would beat the economy of the six speed manual in daily driving. EPA mileage estimates are often wrong. Look at the recent debate about bogus EPA numbers on hybrids due to their methodology of computing mileage rather than measuring it.
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Automatic Better Economy Than Manual
I agree there are a few that have EPA ratings higher with the auto than the stick. This may partly be the optimization of the auto to the model vs the off the self manual. I must admit when I spent the weekend looking recently, for my sister's small SUV or 5 door I did not find one higher with the auto. Naturally these were not high end machines, but we did cover Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Ford and Chrysler.
For towing the manual is better primarily for the braking effect. I agree with Ken the number for the auto are not necessarily real.
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Automatic Better Economy Than Manual
Yeah buy an automatic for PSD and pull with it. See how many trannys you go through with in 36,000 Mi. Then they have the balls to tell you "You are not supposed to pull heavy loads with this truck." But then try to find a Dealer that stocks the manual trans PSD  . Then you try to order one and they tell you it will be six months and you can only get basically a strip down version.
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Automatic Better Economy Than Manual
Find a new dealer, Oneace. Thats BS to be treated like that.
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Automatic Better Economy Than Manual
The most factual and convincing case for manual transmissions is the trucking industry. They are in business to make money and move freight via the MOST efficient AND reliable means. Nearly all commericial freight trucks are manual transmission. There are a very few smaller freight forwarding trucks out there with automatics but they are the exception. The BIGGEST reason the auto industry pushes automatic transmissions on the public is the 98% of folks out there on the road don't know how to drive much less drive a manual shift transmission. This is the same "logic" used by the military. Pvt. Snuffy can tear up a solid iron ball with a balsa wood hammer. If you could have seen the number of destroyed manual transmissions and burned up clutches laying in the motorpools, you would then understand why Uncle Sammy chose automatic transmissions.
If you want to get a classic deer in the headlights look; try and instruct the typical driver on how to double clutch, how to properly upshift or down shift.
The big problem with automatic transmissions especially when used for towing applications is how long and with how much throttle position the torque converter can hold lock up. No automatic transmission has lockup torque coverter capability is ALL forward gears excluding 1st. There is lies the problem. If you want to demonstrate it to yourself, try hooking up to a 10,000 lb. to 12,000 lb. load and pull it through steep mountain or hilly roads. The transmission will be constantly hunting for gears on long steep grades. The so called "tow/haul" mode just delays the inevitable the converter eventually will unlock and the trans. fluid BBQ begins. I don't care how many trans. oil coolers you have. When I come to a hill I gain speed in anticipation for the steep grade and go for full throttle pedal and hold each gear as long as I can and shift gears at rpms that still allow me to remain in an adequate torque/hp range. This is impossible with an automatic. If you firewall the engine, the transmission will nearly always attempt to downshift to a lower gear. When you let off the pedal to allow the rpms to come down out of the stratosphere, then the engine is not in an adequate rpm range to pull the load. Then the gear hunting starts. I normally get over 22 mpg with my 6 spd. manual Cummins powered Dodge; on ocassion up to 26 mpg. You won't get that with automatic.
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Automatic Better Economy Than Manual
Randy;
Makes you wonder what we have in the army today, when they pulled the boys out of the field and trained them to drive deuce and a half 55 year ago.
I have a friend who was in the Red Ball and my uncle was driving on the Canadian front through Italy, France, Netherlands and Germany. Are we getting too soft?
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Automatic Better Economy Than Manual
Eric, I don't think it is so much the people in the military as is it the idiots that make the decisions and how we as a nation bring our kids up and how the military trains and conditions them. In this age of a "don't ask, don't tell", "warm and fuzzy - touchy feely" mentality can't really put it on the young folks entirely. It was my experience that most soldiers wanted to do their best and be successful. It was the idiots making the decisions that frustrated them. I guess some things never change. ;O)
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Automatic Better Economy Than Manual
I guess from my prospective the two fingered computer mentality really dumbs down the populous.
I had one young man with an honours degree in chemistry to whom righty tighty lefty loosy was a new concept. I paid him like MacDonalds for two years while I trained him. He was worth the time, but had be raised by his mother and been allowed to play computer games and not much else. He understood his limitations, some don't and I guess they make them officers now?
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Automatic Better Economy Than Manual
Even as this moves off on a tangent, the argument for auto vs stick an fuel mileage depends a lot on the situation. I opted for the auto on my F250 because my then wife-to-be (I did upgrade her to the actual wife title) struggled with learning a manual transmission. Plus my towing was typically going to be limited to less than 4,000 lbs. If I was going to use it predominantly as a towing vehicle at higher loads, I would have opted for the manual.
From the military's perspective, it probably because more cost effective to go with automatics rather than face the incerasing cost of repairing the manual transmissions. As the US population shifts to less mechanical inclination, I am sure their recruits' ability to operate a manual transmission has greatly diminished. If I ran a commercial business, I would have to consider the cost of a manual vs the cost of an auto especiall in repairs, longevity, etc.
But for the average joe blow out there, a computer controlled auto will beat you on fuel mileage. But maybe not if you are towing a 12,000 lb camper across the rockies... All depends on the scenario.
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Automatic Better Economy Than Manual
another comparison I thought of right after I hit submit was the gear vs HST arguement for tractors. I went with HST because my wife can handle a simple forward/reverse pedal combination. Meaning she is less likely to ram my shop or the house because she panicked and forgot to press the clutch in. But then, I'm not working the unit hard by running a subsoiler, etc. If I tried to do everything a gear tarctor can do for 90% of it's usage, I'd be doing some damage. Just like auto vs manual in vehicles.
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