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Generator set up ideas wanted
A quick thought would seem that turning off the main breaker would make the power lines safe with a generator powering the circuits of the house.
The power company could not explain nor find why there is about 17 volts (the last I heard) between the ground wire and the ground rod at our Church. They said there was a voltage leak somewhere in the area feeding it.
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Generator set up ideas wanted
There was a thead a few days ago about sub panel in a pole barn. I quickly found it got warm with my thoughts not agreed with by another. Hey, that is a benefit of discussion. In that thread the person that took me to task said the neutral and ground are never bonded if memory is correct. Here Murf says they are. (They are bonded here also.) There is something I think is being forgotten...code...currently codes for all of the U.S. and Canada may be the same but a few years ago even in the U.S or within a state the code would vary. Since my post yesterday I spoke to a person with our local electric coop. He said most people here do not use transfer switches. He also said it is possible to have back feed on neutral. I understood he said it should not happen but can.
My advice...run large extension cords to applicances you need to run and then there is no possible back feed. I realize that is not easy for hard wired such as a furnace. Put a plug on it and outlet with the twist lock type and it will work. I think you will find the cost much less than the trasnfer switch and it's installation.
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Generator set up ideas wanted
Murf,
"Want proof, put on some heavy leathe gauntlets, top up your life insurance, disconnect the neutral wire from a 3 prong receptacle, then plug something in and see if you don't still have 120 volts and more than enough flow to power an appliance."
If I followed this fully..one use rubber gloves that approved for such but...if you removed the neutral from a 110 circuit it should not power anything if the appliance has no defects in it. The neutral is required to complete the circuit. Now, there is still the 110 volts sitting on the power or hot leg which you did not disconnect. If anything were to complete a path the across that hot leg to a ground it will have current flow through it. A person could be the anything. For a 110 circuit to work there must be a "flow" path back and that is the neutral. This may be proving the point I think you are making on the danger of not having the neutral/ground disconnected back to power lines.
Along the line of voltage on the neutral/ground that can be dangerous. If you have voltage on your house ground, then the cabinet of your three plug machines may have that voltage. If so then if you are touching that cabinet and touch something with a different ground you may find you have current flowing. Before someone thinks this can not happen, I have seen this with a washing machine. From the cabinet to water line there was a voltage reading. This is also why washing machines use to come with ground wire that was to be connected between the washer cabinet and the water line. I don't know if they do now or not.
As long as the path can not be completed through you, you will not get hurt by touching a live circuit. Look at the birds sitting on the power line or the guys working on high voltage lines with them live. But if something completes a path through them (bird or person), it normally means death.
kt
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Generator set up ideas wanted
A quick point, there are three pong plugs that are 110 volt and also there are those that are 220 volts. I was/am assuming you are talking about 110 volts.
In our part of the world the neutral and ground are bonded together and yes current on one would be there on the other.
However, in a 110 volt applicance the ground should not serve to carry the current back to the breaker box and on to the meter and power lines, UNLESS there is a shortage in that appliance. That is the purpose of the ground. I fully agree the ground can and will complete the path but it is not suppose to be the path and is only there for a shortage.
If you disconnect the neutral wire on a 110 volt applicance circuit and it still operates, you need to disconnect that appliance and get it repaired. There is a shortage in it.
kt
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I just talked with a local electrician who said he had installed many transfer switches and they do not disconnect the neutral. He is licensed, and they were inspected for code. He is talking current and not years ago.
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Generator set up ideas wanted
Murf,
Do you know of a company that makes a disconnect that cuts both power legs and the neutral?
If you do not have to cut the neutral, then if all a disconnect cuts is the two power legs, what is the difference in using a disconnect switch and cutting off the main breaker?
kt
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Generator set up ideas wanted
Unless your house has a dirt floor.
Makes me think. Here concrete floors are popular due to high ground moisture. So, there could be a possible problem with bare damp concrete or tile floor, correct?
Also, when you have flooding (not anything like New Orleans) but say for your house only, any ideas?
Sort of on this line, something that concerns me greatly is small children with plugged in cords. Their fingers are small enough to have the plugged still making contract in the outlet and their finger making a bridge across the hot and neutral prong on the male plug. Not a good situation. If you have small children, be sure your outlets don't let the plugs slip out part of the way due to being worn or strain on cord.
Let's keep them safe also. With Christmas lights they are looking at cords at lot right now.
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"I put a 120v 40w bulb between the comp. and ground so I could tell if it was hot to ground when I turned it on"
I could be totally confused in following all of this but have a few questions: Did you find voltage before you install this test light? If not it probably is coming through the test light. A meter is safer. You can also get small indicator lights that would allow much less wattage through than your 40 watt bulb.
Having very little three phase current experience, could that have been where you hit the motor running backwards?
Unless I am way off, even if a motor was not made for a ground wire, you should always be able to hook one to the motor frame and it not cause any breaker to trip. Now if you were hooking it to the 110 terminal on the motor itself I think you would find a problem and would trip breaker.
Please, do post here what you find for fact if you will.
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I agree with jd's concern of the safety of using any motor (any electric anything for that mater with voltage where it can be touched) with voltage on the frame. Regardless of how safe a person is and how aware all it takes is one slip or stumble...it could be you, your child or someone who just stopped to say hello.
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Carl,
To me it seems as if your ground is doing it's job.
To Murf, is Barrelpoint where you are posting the rest of the bear story? Some of us want to know if the bear ate either of you, don't leave us in suspense! PS: How does that 1 in 10,000 bear know that he/she is it? Makes one wonder. I wonder who counted those 10,000 bears to come up with that. Guess that stopped with 10,000 huh?
kt
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Short,
I just wonder if the guy with the running shoes was Murf..he was telling about his friend and the bear..have we heard from the friend?
Okay, all just kidding Murf. But Enquiring Minds want to know.
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Reading some of these makes me wonder if this could be learning the reason us slow, sweet, chubby guys are always asked to join in hikes? Makes you rethink your friends.
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It concerns me with some of the recent post on this thread and another that with the first of winter some are not getting enough time in fresh air. BOY WHAT TALL TALES. If they don't hit a funny bone it is just buried too deep under table muscles.
As least my lungs are getting good exercise.
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Gas Generator Weather Protecti
12-08-2005, 15:06 
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