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 08-26-2002, 06:29 Post: 41641
TomG

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 Basement Block

No expertise here but I think that vapour barrier or similar specialty product is used on foundation walls in new construction. I'm not sure but I think tar is sometimes allied, then foam insulation and barrier over everything. However, I don't think barrier can be retrofitted. I think that it goes under the footings. Foam insulation saves on the heating. It also means that a basement can be kept cooler without the foundation freezing. The foam also creates a cushion against front heave.

I'd have to assume the contractor knows conditions in the area and used a durable design, but there are things to think about. It gets cold around here and block foundations are damaged from frost heave in buildings that aren't heated during the winter. Good drainage is important in minimizing frost heave. A bad year is a lot of rain that saturates the soil followed by a hard freeze.

The trouble with tiles is that in the country there's no city drainage system. When you need the drainage, the soil everywhere is saturated and there's no place to drain it to. Some people do have sumps and pump drainage to run off on the surface.

If there's a water problem, sealing foundation walls can have interesting results. There is ground water pressure against the wall that is partially relieved by seepage through the blocks. Seal it and the pressure increases. However the water is very likely to find an entry point. Sealing can turn a damp basement into one with a small stream along one wall. An adequate drainage design is important.






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 08-27-2002, 05:23 Post: 41678
TomG

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 Basement Block

Thanks Murf. I knew I've seen the product sometimes when passing by new construction. I just didn't know how it's applied. From what you say, insulation boards would be applied outside the barrier.

I guess that if the barrier terminates into the weeping tiles then retro-fitting is possible but probably too bid a job except for very serious water problems. The old-time solution is just let the water come into the basement, channel it into a sump and pump it downhill.

We have a high water table at our camp. A 5' hole dug in August gets water in the bottom after about 20 minutes. In such a situation, I think that a leeching pit may not provide adequate drainage. If there's a water problem and the basement isn't a finished area, installing vapour barrier beneath the dirt or other flooring is a pretty good idea. We demolished the house formerly at our came because it rotted from the bottom due to constant high humidity in the cellar.






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 08-28-2002, 07:27 Post: 41720
TomG

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 Basement Block

Thanks Murf! Insulation inside the barrier was my first impression. Frequently my impressions are more accurate than when I think about it. Could save myself a bunch of time if I'd just take the lesson.

We're in the highlands and have much the same deposits as you, but between outcroppings of bedrock. Most buildings are built on the deposits. Funny thing is that full time occupancy permits can't be issued for structures built on piers--that's what many people use for cottages. Old time cabins were built on logs that were just laid on the ground--you can't do that anymore either. Anyway, those are techniques that work around here. For a house, you pretty much have to put it on footings. Then you pretty much have to heat it during the winter or the foundations crack.

I don't think slab on grade is allowed either (don't know why because a variation of it is called an Alaska slab or something like that). That should work too, and probably so would post and skirt foundations. The house at out camp wasn’t on footings. It was on a few courses of blocks that raised it enough so the cellar floor could be above water table (at least most of the time). The blocks under the house were setting OK after 40-years or so and a few winters unheated. The blocks in the cellar were getting precarious though. Basically the foundations worked. It was rot rather than the blocks that finished off the house. Seems like under the codes we can't use the things that work, and the ones that are allowed need a furnace. I just don't get it but that's nothing new.






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 08-29-2002, 05:48 Post: 41761
TomG

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 Basement Block

Guess I'll plead guilty for getting this off-topic. I indulged myself with two small rants yesterday and Murf combined responses to both here. The rants probably didn't deserve individual responses. Back to blocks: We don't know if the Glenn was dealing with a high water table or not. It also sounds like the foundation is already built, so my comments about structural type may be irrelevant.

I guess my point is that if the structure is subject to a high water table and frost, then another type structure might be less expensive and have fewer problems. Floating structures work OK here, and I'm almost certain that our township offices are slab on grade. Murf's point about utility hookups is well taken. It's not that you can't do it successfully, but that it has to be done differently than for structures with basements. However, under codes you don't have much of a choice, residences have to be on footings ( probably so some future owner who wants a basement can dig out the crawl space). Codes have to do with planning as well as with structural integrity.

We were considering using block walls for a basement walk-in. It would have been on a reinforced 6" slab over 2" foam and aggregate. The first course would be set over rebar studs set on the slab. Block-lock would be used ever few courses and cavities would be motor filled and rebar reinforced. 2" foam would be used outside the walls. That was the design recommended by a building tech and is probably how I'd do it if I had to build basement walls.

The water table at our house is lower than at our camp. The house has a block foundation. There are plenty of cracks in it from frost damage, but the cracks haven't moved for years. Water would come into the basement easily if the soil near the foundation becomes saturated. Eaves toughing cured the summer water problem and hopefully re-grading work this summer will cure the spring run off problem. However, the walls aren't sealed and I probably wouldn't seal them. I think improving drainage is an easier solution to water problems than sealed foundation walls. They’ll probably stand for decades longer—cracks and all.






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 08-30-2002, 06:23 Post: 41803
TomG

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 Basement Block

Well dang, I am appreciating this. Maybe I shouldn't have edited out that the reason for my rants was that my permanent coffee filter stopped being permanent and left me with a hot water/grounds mixture in the pot, the coffee maker and on the counter. I wrote that I'm a bear without my morning coffee, but that would have paled in comparison with these further comments.

Mark: I told the bear and mosquito spray joke and got a good laugh from my wife and also a woman whose husband is a bear guide (I suppose I have to say that hunters rather than bears pay him). He and his wife just returned from a seminar for guides. The seminar bears out (I just can't stop) what you were saying about the spray. It just slows down determined bears, it doesn't stop them, and it likely slows down the user too. Apparently there's some serious research going on to identify the causes of aggressive black bear behaviour.






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