discussion   |   photos   |   email   |   myProfile   |   home          Login Now | Sign Up


Forum Index


New As Posted | Active Subjects



Click to Post a New Message!

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Electric Forum

Page [ 1 ] |
Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo
 03-28-2004, 21:00 Post: 81436
TomG

TP Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5406

Return to Full
 wiring my new garage

I think there are splitters that can be installed after a meter. Ordinarily they won't work because most times an existing service panel and service line have the same rating. A new heavier service line can be expensive but maybe not as expensive as two separate services.

An alternative depending on how full the house panel is might be running a branch circuit off the house panel to a sub-panel in the garage. Branch circuits most places can be up to 125A and service panels can be 'over-fused' to 110% of rating or so. At 200' at least one step over-sized wire would be required. There would be details to check. I suppose that in very stringent code areas it might be possible that a 200' run might require wire size that wouldn't be approved for the size breaker needed. Unlikely but possible and you don't want to be committed to something only to find that it can't be approved.

I did the service at out camp as a branch circuit off a main panel. New 200A service to a pole panel and a 100A branch circuit underground to the 100A panel in our 40' construction trailer. $3.75 a foot sounds like a real deal. If it's 100A copper direct burial wire I doubt I could buy the wire for that price. Trenching is fun though.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 03-29-2004, 06:00 Post: 81456
TomG

TP Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5406

Return to Full
 wiring my new garage

I've never seen a meter base that could split a service line but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I think the main issues you'll face is that the total of rating service panel or panels connected to a service can't (or in your case shouldn't) exceed the rating of the service line. In addition, splitting the line behind the meter would require the garage feed to be treated as a service line. Codes for service lines are more stringent than for branch circuits. If your service panel already equals the line rating, then you're sort of stuck.

Codes are pretty conservative but they're designed so life expectancy of wiring is around 50 years. Higher than rated loads make wiring run hotter, which shortens the expected life. If you're 'code free' then you can make a decision to exceed ratings and shorten service life but it's good to recognize the risks and boy have I seen people taking huge risks. Your experience with the line and lug is also why lines can't be ganged onto the terminal lugs. Also for that reason I tighten the lugs in several stages separated by several days before going live.

Irrespective of co-op arrangements and lack of inspections, codes are basically good sense and intended to keep houses from burning down etc. Working to code is pretty good practice even if it isn't required. Many retail and wholesale suppliers have 'Electrical Codes Simplified ' books that are pretty good for keeping an amateur (and I'm one) pretty close to codes. The books give quite a bit of detail about trenching requirements for underground feeds and for load planning.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 03-30-2004, 06:03 Post: 81527
TomG

TP Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5406

Return to Full
 wiring my new garage

In most places the utility is responsible for making connections to service panels. If they connect it then it's got be up to code so there's no debate there. I'm assuming that meter bases with additional lugs are larger than the standard jumbo bases because I can't imagine for example that there'd be enough room in a 200A jumbo base for three 100A lines in addition to 6 200A lines required for standard 200A service. I don't know if the additional lugs Peters mentioned would accommodate heavy service line not.

I'm reasonably certain the idea wouldn't fly here, although the last service I installed was going on 4 years ago now. It might be a good deal if the idea flies but to me splitting still is equivalent a branch circuit in terms of total load rating on the utility line and a branch circuit hookup should be easier. I really can't imagine that existing service line would be so above a service panel load rating that an additional 100A could be hung on it but who knows? Similarly I can't imagine a utility being too happy about residential service with multiple disconnects but again maybe it's a good deal if the idea flies. Our utility is conservative and the rules worked to are pretty restrictive.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 04-04-2004, 20:27 Post: 82139
TomG

TP Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5406

Return to Full
 wiring my new garage

I couldn't agree more. I'm subject to codes and inspections and have done all my own work. I actually like the inspectors I've worked with.

Kully's point about insurance companies is a very good one. After we finally managed to have 500 gallons of waste oil left courtesy of a previous owner disposed of my insurance broker said: 'You know that if there had been a spill there wouldn't have been any coverage.' I said 'No, do tell.' She said insurance companies have a policy that insurance is to cover accidents and something that can be reasonably foreseen isn't an accident. That was quite an awakening but insurance in other areas may not be the same.

For electrical there is a National Code and 'code simplified' books are readily available. I think that sticking with codes is a good idea irrespective of what can be done or isn't required.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 06-01-2004, 19:31 Post: 87462
TomG

TP Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5406

Return to Full
 wiring my new garage

I'm not sure my "Electrical Code Simplified" is the current edition but the requirement is about 30" in pedestrian areas and 42" under drives for unprotected line not including the 3" of sand required below and above the line. Protection with 1.5" cedar planking above the sand decreases the depth requirements by 6".

Conduit isn't required and doesn't count as protection (it does make replacing line easier if necessary). Plumbing drain or most anything works for underground conduit sections but verticals or anything that is attached to a structure must be approved for electrical use.

The code book is available in places like bookstores and Home Hardware for around $10 and is well worth the price. One thing that's not exactly clear in code books is that book is that a disconnect is required in the garage (unless my inspector was wrong).






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 06-02-2004, 06:36 Post: 87493
TomG

TP Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5406

Return to Full
 wiring my new garage

Maybe just some unasked for detail here but maybe interesting to some. Supplemental grounds for outbuildings are required here only for buildings that house livestock. The main idea is to ensure that neutral and earth potentials are the same. Especially in dairy operations tingling from differences in potentials can sure put them off their food and make them cranky.

Generally supplemental grounds are undesirable since they can set up ground loops that may use power and reduce life of the grounding system. Around here grounding rods start loosing their effectiveness at around five years anyway and plates last only a little longer.

Regarding disconnects: For separate structures, a circuit breaker for a single circuit or a double breaker for two circuits qualifies. Anything else takes a sub-panel with a main breaker or a separate disconnect box. The neutral and ground busses cannot be bonded.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Page [ 1 ] |

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Electric Forum

Thread 81423 Filter by Poster:
brokenarrow 2 | hardwood 1 | kully560 2 | kwschumm 1 | loghouse95 2 | Peters 2 | stan1234 2 | texbaylea 1 | TomG 6 |

 (advanced search)

Picture of the Day
DennisCTB

Current Events - House Fire Near Me
House Fire Near Me


Unanswered Questions

Gas Generator Weather Protecti
Horse Injured Polyrope Electri
Do electric fences keep out de
Any Peruvian Paso Owners Out T
gas powered post driver
My new born foal is really sic
Trailer Axle
dump trailer blueprints


Active Subjects

Gas Generator Weather Protecti
Went to see Dennis Reis this w
Signs to look for prior to lab
leg injury
Broodmare has welts all over h
Some Christmas Humor For Horse
poles in the ground vs. concre
ever thought about moving?


Hot Topics

new app owner
Some Christmas Humor For Horse
Any Peruvian Paso Owners Out T
Heating a Garage
Gas Generator Weather Protecti
Do electric fences keep out de
gas powered post driver
Trailer Axle


Featured Suppliers

Mountain Creek Labradoodles
      MountainCreekLabradoodles.com





New Forums on Gun Sport Shooting and Hunting -- BarrelPoint.com  New Forums on Horses ManePoint.com
Talk Horses at ManePoint
Hunting + Gun Sports at BarrelPoint



Most Viewed

+ Hanging Ceiling Fan in Great room
+ Back-up power
+ need a 110V winch
+ Underground Elec - direct-burial vs in conduit
+ trouble shooting
+ Underground Wiring
+ Tapping in to Well Electric
+ pole barn sub panel
+ Better common light bulbs
+ wiring my new garage

Most Discussion

+ need a 110V winch
+ pole barn sub panel
+ Hanging Ceiling Fan in Great r
+ Back-up power
+ Turn a freezer into a refriger
+ Underground Wiring
+ trouble shooting
+ wiring my new garage
+ Tapping in to Well Electric
+ Electrical Ground Question

Newest Topics

+ LED light bulb hum
+ Breaker Trips After lIghts on 30 minutes
+ Power 120v heat strip off one phase of 240v line
+ Maytag Oven
+ trouble shooting
+ Infrared space heaters
+ T-8 s or T-12 s
+ lighting
+ noalox compound
+ 220 pump shed
















Turbochargers for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Cab Glass for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Alternators for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Radiators for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Driveline Components for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Starter Motors for Tractors and Industrial Machines