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Bear sighting
You need to make a lot of noise when walking in bear country. They claim that many people are attacked because they essentually sneek up on the bear and do not give him time to determine that you are not food.
In timber cruising in grizzly country we normally took dogs and a pump 12 gauge with shot. Your target gets pretty small if they decide to run at you. You only have a heart or head shot. A charging bear can move very quick. I have heard of a 30-06 round glancing off the thick slanted cranium of a grizzly or large black bear. The 12 gauge will stop them if they get too close and makes a great little noise machine.
Finally bears will eat oil. They even go after the mixed fuel. When falling in the high country we had to keep doubles of everything and try and hid them where they could not find. Once the area is cleared it become a bear deli as they go in looking for grubs etc. I have spent weeks with the black following me checking out the last trees that went down. At least it was natural behavior.
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Bear sighting
Ive had a few quick or distant bear encounters over the years. I figure Im due for a close encounter some day. The last one was a couple of weeks ago while four wheeling near the Poconos in PA. We spotted a cub about 30 feet away. No sign of momma bear but you know she had to be close by. My first encounter wasnt really an encounter but was actually more frightening. My wife and I were backcountry hiking/camping in known bear country and as we settled into our campsite for the evening, she proceeded to spill beef noodle soup all over me, my clothes, pack and sleeping bag. Some stuff we were able to hang away from the campsite. Other stuff I just had to use. I didnt sleep much that night.
Fortunitely, no bear visits that night. On a different occasion, we did have a bear walk through our campsite and rattle some pans while four wheeling near Tahoe last year.
Anyway, Since I now do most of my hiking and camping in PA, I must travel through the comunist state of MD which has unconstitutionally strick firearms laws, Im thinking about the bear pepper spray option. Anyone have any experience with these?
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Bear sighting
A cub seen from 30' and no mom most likely was an orphan. Make noise when in the bush and generally the first thing mom does is chase her cubs up a tree. Make noise and don't approach a tree that has a cub in it and get out oft the way if you end up between them. For the most part she'll tell you she wants you to go somewhere else and give you opportunity to do it. Pepper spray is far from a guarantee against a serious bear but it's better than nothing. It only works from 25' max so it's scary if it has to be used but probably less scary than a handgun.
For the most part bears aren't scary; they're just hungry. No surprises for the bear or the people is the key. Cooking utensils and even toothpaste and deodorant are better off up a tree away from camp--no curious bears in camp and there's less chance of stumbling over each other.
Bears that are familiar with humans may try to intimidate people away from food and they ignore yelling etc. That's what gets them shot around here other than hunting. If they're serious they usually work themselves up for a charge by puffing and swatting the ground--a sure sign to back off.
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Bear sighting
"Pepper spray is far from a guarantee against a serious bear but it's better than nothing. It only works from 25' max so it's scary if it has to be used but probably less scary than a handgun."
Come on now??? Your comparing a handgun to pepper spray that works at 25'. Pepper spray barely works on some people, I have been sprayed and was less than impressed. If it can't stop the average "Joe" how the heck am I going to trust my life on it stopping a bear??? The bear will probably use it as a condiment while he feasts on yer' gizzard!
I agree a hangun is less than ideal but I'll take a 16 shot 9mm over your pepper spray any day of the week.
I don't bother the bears and so far they haven't bothered me. I have little doubt that should it come to it the black bears around my way, while they may be fairly decent sized are going to go down if hit multiple times. Their big they probably are coming at you in astraight line so hitting them should be doable even with the stress of the situation. Ever try to hit something moving with pepper spray?? Not easy, it moves slow and drifts. That's why many cops hate it, they try to spray the bad guy and 4 of your fellow officers and up coughing,red faced, runny nosed and cursing you 
The Alaskan Brown Bear that just killed and partially devoured the animal activist/bear expert and his girlfriend last week was killed when the Park Ranger fired 11 shots from his handgun. The bear dropped only 20' from the Ranger, they made no mention of how many shots were hits and since they didn't say he was out of ammo one can guess that he had some left( probably 15 round L.E. only mags). I would guess tat the chances are he had a 9mm or similar caliber based on his magazine capacity.
That bear was a far larger and more dangerous animal than the black bears 90% of us will ever come across. That animal had already killed 2 persons and was dining on their remains when he went into a full charge at the Ranger. They said there were 2 Rangers standing by with shotguns but they didn't fire because the Ranger with the handgun was able to dispatch the animal. He joked about what they were waitng for
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Bear sighting
At the risk of being off-topic, I was amused last night to see a TV commercial from the Maryland visitors council encouraging people to visit Maryland. I thought to myself, "Not in this life".
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Bear sighting
Probably a good idea going off-topic, but I can't quite stop myself from carrying on a bit.
I likely have a different view of bears since I'm around them and also of safety. I think of bear attacks as less real than lighting strikes. I don't ever expect to experience one and I'm more prone than most since I have to move them around to use the dump. I have been chased back to my half-ton along with a bear guide who led the way. We later moved the bear off the pit w/o spray or guns. Still, the chance of me experiencing an attack and defending myself with spray or gun just doesn't seem real to me so it doesn't make much difference if I have spray, gun or nothing.
What seems more real is the chance of shooting myself or somebody else if I carry to protect myself against something that has insignificant chance of happening anyway. People shoot themselves and friends with much greater regularity than bears attack people. The risk is always present and no amount of training or experience eliminates it. At least that's my view of safety. I'd be at greater risk from the gun than from the bears. Spray may not be particularly effective but at least you aren't likely to kill yourself with it when there aren't even any bear around. Others are welcome to different views.
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Bear sighting
I'm told the real problem with spray is not it's effectiveness. The danger is running into a bear who has been sprayed previously, remebers the smell, and takes the mere presence of it as a threat and responds accordingly.
Like it or not firearms are very good at preventing recidivism, in humans or bears. There is a very low rate of repeat offenders after the big bang.
I suppose the risk of shooting someone accidentally has to also be weighed against the risk of someone being attacked if a problem bear is not dealt with permanently.
I guess we should be most thankful that it was humans who invented the gun and not bears..... .
Best of luck.
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I know policemen that have never shot their guns in any place other than the shooting range. But, just because they never felt the need to shoot someone does not mean that it was a waste of time to carry the firearm.
Chief, if I keep a bear and I somehow allow it to kill someone, I can be held legally responsible for neglegent homicide. On top of that the lawyers may be able to sue my pants off for the liability even if someone has to get past multiple levels of protection to pet the "attractive nuisance". If the state protects a bear and then enacts a law that prohibits you from protecting yourself against that bear, the only thing that the lawyers can do is to get the laws changed. The state has no liability in this case and you cannot get compensation. Even if the state officials make an error in their interpretation, they are protected unless there is some other motive as in a bribe or personal vendetta.
I have had close bear encounters. I have only shot once. That shot was placed into a tree about two feet from the bears head. The bang, flash and impact noise a couple of feet away was enough to send the bear packing. He stayed around our camp all night (we could see his eyes with a flashlight in the trees) but he never returned.
I am with F350 I would rather have a 9mm than a can of hot sauce any day. There is an extra amount of shock that occurs when a body gets hit with multiple bullets. It more than multiplies the effect. Poachers in Africa will take elephants with a G3 which only shoots a .308 cartridge, and nobody in their right mind would use a .308 against an elephant, but the G3 can get multiple shots on target and that makes the difference.
I don't ever recommend someone getting a handgun without training in how to use it. Whenever anyone on this forum has asked about guns for self defense at home, I almost always recommend a long gun. Pistols are quite useful if they are properly employed and used safely.
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Bear sighting
" am with F350 I would rather have a 9mm than a can of hot sauce any day."
In my experience if the spray works, you probably didn't need to use it. What I mean is it usually only works on the people who are not real aggressive or pain tolerant. A bad guy who is intent of continuing the battle does.
I would think it might be the same with a bear, it MAY scare of the bear who is just trying to run you off but I think it's effectivness against a determined animal will be less than desired. You may even turn that bear who was just toying with you into the latter.
P.S. I do still have a can in the drivers side door pocket of my truck, figured I'll spray you with my left hand then draw and shoot ya'with my right. Now that should improve it's effectivness.....
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Without tearing into my (virtual) friend Tom, I'd like to say that from my perspective I like to control as much of my destiny as possible. In a confrontation with a predator I'll take all the edge I can get.
Sure, you want to avoid a confrontation but the bear has to meet you half way. You can't assume every bear your run into at the dump is healthy and normal. If the bear is ill, or thinks you're a threat to it's cub, or is hungry, or is having a bad day it can ruin your day.
I also think that as adults we have responsibilities to protect OUR young. If a child, mine or yours, is threatened by a bear I'd like to be able to help without falling on my sword. The chances of accidentally shooting someone are pretty slim if a gun never has to leave it's holster unless you're on a range. But if you need it you'll be glad you have it. I'll bet those two Alaska nature lovers wished they had a gun half way through their confrontation. Their destiny was ultimately fulfilled - they are now one with nature.
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10-11-2003, 11:13 
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