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Bear sighting
Mark pretty well nailed it. Firearms owners have been so villified that here in the states we reflexively try to stamp out hostile rhetoric before it gains a foothold. That means we sometimes make mistakes and shoot ourselves in the foot  Please pass one of those beers.
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Bear sighting
Glad to pass, BUT, be careful, it's not just the Canadian bears you have to watch out for, our BEERS bite too..
Why just the other day I heard of a fella knocking a couple back quickly, they took the legs right out from under him..........
Best of luck.
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Bear sighting
Murf and Tom are talking about weekly encounters with bears and knowledge of bears. I certainly would not have wanted a gun hand gun in my pocket when fighting up the mountainside with a large chainsaw in hand. I have had the brush and slash will unclip everything. Would not wear a watch. Unless you know what the leather fringes are for at the bottom of the laces you have no idea. I would give it a probability of 100% that the safety would be switched or you loose the gun. I would place it a bout 50% that you would shoot your self. More precisely the slash would catch the trigger on the non-safe gun. I guess I always had a weapon in hand but he had to get with in 3 ft. I can not say that that it was the bears were the most dangerous things on my agenda during the day.
I have scared my self once or twice where I stepped a little to close to a bear, but as someone mentioned earlier in this post we are a greater threat to bears than they are to us. In any encouter case I was the stupid one and had violated proper procedure with wild bears.
The native population was not on the lunch menu despite having only arrows and pointy sticks. So why do we consider our selves at threat? Knowledge of the wildlife is far more effective that blowing them away.
When I was younger an American was in Skookumchuk with his power boat. The killer whales were playing around his boat and he decided that it was a threat to him. He pulled out his gun, something that was illegal for him to transport into Canada and started blasting away. The killer whale washed up on the beach a day later. Was the large porpose a danger to him or was he and his ignorance a danger to the killer whale? Again within native Coast Salish, Haida, Tsimsan etc. cultures there was no fear of killer whales only reverence.
Fear is a difficult thing to control. I am not against dispatching with problem animals, but normally the problems in bears arise from the foolishness of man. I have had large young wild western black bear(~500lb) with in 6 inches, I felt in danger, but did not think he was threatening me. Certainly startled me though. My first thought was not to fight with the bear, only to extracate my self from a bad situation.
I would not go into deep bear country without a good bear dog as they definately reduce encounters. My brother in-law uses the Catahoula that my niece brought back from here, his lab just doesn't cut it. My mom's wolf/shepherd certainly puts the bears on the run. He kept on treed beside the house a couple of days.
I think you are foolish to believe you can easily bring down a large bear with a 9 mm despite what the Alaska wildlife does with two shotguns aimed at the bear. I have seen a large grizzly brought down with a 30-30 and he had to empty the mag into the heart. Luckally it stood up and walked toward him.
I do not consider myself an expert despite maybe 100 encounters with bears, beyond the crowd at the dump. I do find it upsetting to see people afraid of bears rather than learning the rules and treating them with respect.
In my childhood neighbourhood you went out the back door and had about 3 or 4 road between you and the artic ocean. Although we were aware and wary of bears we still had encounters fishing etc. For example, I went running down Terrace mountain racing ahead of my friends (11 year olds). I jumped over a log and bounded down the wooded hillside. Got to the bottom and looked behind. No friends trailing. I stood there for a few minutes then headed back up the mountain. I got up a ways and found them comming down a little white. I asked them what happened? They said didn't you see the bear that you leaped over. Huh? They sat there until the bear ambled into the woods then followed.
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Bear sighting
Appreciate the eventual calm replies. For the never calm ones, get a grip. If you treat people like me as the enemy you're just helping those that are trying to do unto you and have done unto us here.
A former federal official recently gave an interview about our nutty control and registration system here. What was said is that the policy was to make the system as outrageous as possible. The reason was that the party policy people wanted outraged letters and even better demonstrations from owners. They felt that it would score points for the government with the enviros and crowd. Owners were simply scapegoated to help keep a few low-life politicos in office. Hey, don't help them eh!
There are real use, lore and safety issues that might be good to discuss but maybe it's too difficult. It also doesn't seem very helpful to treat an entire township of bushies as if they don't know what they're doing. Most people spend a lot of time in the bush and we're knee-deep in bears. Nobody here ever takes guns into the bush except for hunting or practice. Protection just isn't an issue. There hasn't been a bear attack in a long while. Well, we do keep track of what's hanging around where, and the ones on their ways to becoming problems just don't last very long.
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Bear sighting
Chief, with all due respect, I'll take that bet.
A mature black bear can only achieve about 25 mph, and that takes a bit. Even if he had a a running start it wouldn't be too hard to get there first, especially since I leave the door open.
As for him ramming his skull through the truck door window, that's not likely to happen since a mature male is only about 5' tall standing up, in which position they have very poor balance, they can only run on all 4 feet at which time they are only 3' tall, a dent in the door skin is possible though I suppose. I do know the 'panic' button on my trucks keyless entry system makes more than enough noise to scare a bear off, they seem to learn when very young not to pick a fight with a vehicle.
Careful is very good advise, however let's put the risk in a little perspective here. The following facts are from the United States Department of Agriculture's Forest Service.
Recorded killings by Black bears for all of North America this CENTURY, 28.
The 500,000 Black bears in North America kill fewer than 1 person every 3 years.
Or if you want to compare apples to apples, for EVERY person who is killed by a Black bear, 17 people are killed by spiders, 25 people are killed by snakes, 67 people are killed by dogs, 150 people are killed by tornadoes, 180 people are killed by bee or wasp stings, 374 people are killed by lightning, and 90,000 are murdered.
Before someone says "but what about a mother with cubs?" this is what they say on that subject.
"Unlike grizzly bear mothers, black bear mothers seldom attack people in defense of cubs. Black bear mothers typically bluff or retreat. Researchers who routinely capture cubs by chasing them up trees have not been
attacked even when they have held screaming cubs. The ferocity of mother black bears is one of the biggest misconceptions about this species."
'Nuff said.
Best of luck.
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The animal responsible for the most deaths in the US is the common deer (mostly whitetail and mule). I am sure that the vast majority is from traffic mishaps.
Tom, please do not take any offense to anything I said. I certainly did not intend any offense, but intent is hard to express in an email. I will continue to "pack heat", but I appreciate your point of view and your valuable insights. It is fine with me to have a well considered difference of opinion.
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Bear sighting
Time to give it a rest I think. For myself, I don't take offense easily and any I do take doesn't last long. I am gong to react to labels applied to me and values attributed to me I don't think fit and are a stretch to get to from what I wrote; and so I did.
I was focused on firearms as tools and the risks inherent in the use of any tool. I never thought my old 9mm (granted a WWII Walther) nor my .45 ACP had enough of a whack to make them very good tools in this hypothetical situation and may end up having a wounded bear in the bush.
But it's all hypothetical and extremely unlikely to happen, so why run any risk? I'm all for tools, and training and experience do manage firearm tools to acceptable levels but risks remain as I can attest to from experience. Never any accidents though except a guy I knew did shoot himself in the leg a little fast drawing. I did that as well but I must have practiced longer before going live. Pretty dumb I guess and so was shooting rats in the county dump with .22 pistols by flashlight, which we did as alternative Friday night recreation. Since I likely owned firearms (if 12-year olds can) before you were born but not in recent years, have I said enough so that making me out as an anti-gun type seems pretty silly?
I did carry my .45 when hunting when I was young. Now I wonder why. It weighted a lot and there never was the remotest use for it. No problem with others carrying if it makes them comfortable and there's adequate training. I'd just as soon not be around though. Dang! Guess I didn't give it a rest. Sorry.
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I am sorry if this rubs some one the wrong way, but I see little need for guns in dealing with black bears. The west coast bears are about double the size of the eastern bears I have seen. I was nose to nose with one day and his nose was in my navel. He was a youngster. I had certainly seen bigger blacks bears.
My biggest problem is what I consider a threat after maybe a hundred bear encounters, not including the weekly nature encounter at the dump, is not what some suburban neo hunter thinks his ass is in danger.
I worked daily with the bear with in eye site working over the trees I had fallen. I never had a weapon other than the chain saw. They normally kept a safe distance from the noise. In that situation a handgun, like Tom stated would have been a greater risk to me than nothing at all. When working in the brush and slash everything is stripped from you. You certainly would not wear a watch. The idea that you could keep a handgun on safety and in the holster is ridiculous. If you do not know what the fringes on the lace bottoms of you boots are for then you have no idea.
I am against blasting away wildlife just because it looked at me wrong.
When I was in my teens an American decided to sail up to the Skookumcuk. The Orcas started playing around his boat and he got frightened. He took out his illegal fire arm and started blasting away. We had to clean the Killer Whale off the beach later. There are only some 150 Orcas in the southern pods, now there was one less. Certainly the natives never considered the whales a threat in their cedar canoes why did he in his 50 ft motor cruiser.
When common knowledge comes from Hollywood and the media, we are in real trouble. Certainly the idiot Italian that made the movie about them attacking the boat was not doing it to educate, but titillate.
If you want protection from bears take a good bear dog. My brother in law has found the Catahoula that my niece brought back from AL is effective. The wolf/shepard we had treed more than one grown bear. Kept one up the tree next to the house once, for a couple of days. The dog smells them and lets you know of their presence in the area long before you will. Also helps to make more noise as you hike through the woods.
I never killed anything I did not plan on eating. I don't like bear so I don't plan to shoot one, therefore if I am not hunting I don't carry a gun in the woods. I have never felt threatened although I have been in danger once or twice, mostly do to not following the rules.
I am afraid about moving around a city like NY. Mostly do to the hostility you experience from the inhabinants when invading their lane of traffic. Let alone their shopping line or space in the subway. You are much more likely to get killed or injured by one of these idiots than the average black bear or grizzly for that matter. I certainly have experience a greater frequency of hostility from the New Yorker than the bears. I never tried taking the bear dog to NY. Do you think that would work?
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Peters, you're right about everything being stripped off your body when doing logging work in thick brushy areas. Not a good place to carry a gun, phone, watch, or anything else. Heck, it can be hard enough keeping your clothes on!
You're also right about urban areas being more dangerous than the woods, although the danger is generally much less than most people think. Most cities have rough areas that I wouldn't enter without carrying a defensive weapon. Cities like LA have areas where even cops won't go at night for anything less than a murder.
Nobody here wants to shoot a bear just because it exists.
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In my direct experience, the bears that I have encountered have been relocated bears with a "troubled" past. In California, bears would come right up to houses in areas like Big Bear (I wonder where that name came from?) and they would be relocated to the Sequoia wilderness areas. As Mark said, these bears (mostly with tags or marking) have already had troublesome encounters with people, regard them as a source of food and entertainment, and are not generally scared to invade your space.
I have traveled extensively in Alaska and I for one was always more cautious with Moose than I was with the bears. I have never had an encounter with a truly wild bear.
Here in NM, I know that there are bears around, but they seldom come anywhere near where I live. With only 2M people in the whole state, there is a lot of open area where everyone can do their thing without conflict.
On my recent Utah trip, I took a firearm because of fresh reports of attacks by bears on campers in the same area where I was going to travel. I never saw a bear on the entire trip and never unpacked the gun. I took a box of "Bird Bombs" which are like big firecrackers that you can shoot from a 12 ga shotgun, and I figured that the noise would be all that would be necessary to head off an encounter.
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10-21-2003, 16:06 
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