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pole barn sub panel
Carldnell, first thing did you run your feeders in metal conduit from your main panel to your sub panel? If so, some may (inspectors) consider this a ground, but you also have a metallic path between your detached structures and must run a fourth wire (ground) from your main to sub. Now if you used PVC then I would put a ground rod or two out at your pole barn. The problem you have is your system is not grounded out at the pole barn. If your sub panel or receptacles ever become energized you would have a major shock problem. Once you put your ground rods out there then you must bond your panel since you did not run a fourth wire aka ground. The reason for this is if you ever have a ground fault you may not have enough resistance for the breaker to trip since the ground is a terrible conductor of electricity. With your panel bonded and you have a ground fault it can now travel back via the neutral, which will create enough resistance to trip the breaker.
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pole barn sub panel
Eric, today I revisited the NEC article and found how to see the figures/diagrams 1,2,and 3. I printed out 2 and 3 and found that my installation is figure 3. However, I have two ground fault circuits for elec. outlets and the text said without ground fault circuits. What I have is a 400Amp service split to 200Amp each to home and shop. I was required to use a 400A meter base with two trailer disconnects of 200A each. One for the house and one for the shop/garage. The ground buss and neutral buss are bonded and grounded to the meter base. The #4 bare runs into the house and shop service panels unbroken from ground rod to meter base, to trailer disconnects,to each service panel. The neutral buss in the house and shop is isolated from the ground as required locally. At the trailer disconnect that supplies the pole barn I have a 100A breaker and three wires(two hot, one neutral)to supply the pole barn in PVC undrground. At the pole barn I have two breaker boxes bolted and bonded together. One has a 100A breaker as a main disconnect, the other has places for 8 breakers. The neutral is isolated and the ground is bonded to the panel boxes with no ground rod. Now, if I install a ground rod and wire it to the ground buss do I also need to bond the neutral? Or, since I have ground fault circuits need to keep the neutral isolated?
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Carldnell post your question on this web site. This site is very helpfull and there are plenty of electricians and inspectors on this site.
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Thanks for that site Eric. It is a GOLD MINE of info. I joined and put a thread on the question I asked of you. I am just making sure the inspector told me right. I do want to be protected.
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Cardarnell, I have about the exact same setup. Pad mounted xformer, 400A. pedastall meter next to it. Seperate Feeds going to the house and barn. Both are 3 wire feeds, 2 conductors and a neutral. It does not matter whether it's run in pvc or metel conduit. What does matter is that your service panels are grounded(with ground rod)and the panels must be bonded to this ground. If not, your panel could be energized and not trip the breaker, since your neutral is isolated. The two boxes being bonded together gets you "nothing" at this point, since they are not grounded. Ground those boxes, or you risk the chance of being electrocuted! HTH.
Merry Christmas all!
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You could get 100% correct advice from an expert electrician on the internet and it really wouldn't matter if your local inspector disagreed. You need to satisfy the local inspector, so you might as well ask them up front.
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My service panels ARE grounded to the ground rod. The inspector wanted me to put one ground rod in at the meter base. Then run one continious #4 bare copper wire folded in half from the ground rod to the meter base ground lug. Then one of the wires went to the left side house trailer disconnect ground lug and through the conduit into the house service panel ground lug. The other wire went to the right side shop/garage trailer disconnect ground lug and then to the shop/garage service panel ground lug. He did not want the neutral bonded to ground. That is how the inspector wanted it. That was using 2002 Ky elec. code. What I am trying to find out now is do I need a ground rod at the pole barn and how to hook it up. The inspector told me no when I was putting it in. The electrician I work for said it needs a ground rod. I am searching for the current code as to how it should be hooked up. But, I have been told several ways to do it. Now, which one is right, that is the question. What I need to do is find a code book and read it and ask the power co. field man here about it.
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kw, that is part of the problem. It's all in and inspected so I don't have to go through him again. Just reading the posts here got me to thinking, maybe mine needs a ground rod at the barn to be safe and how to connect it. I guess I am going to have to find a copy of the 2005 NEC and read it for myself. According to the NEC article on sub panels in outbuildings that is in a post in this thread If you run a 4 wire system, 2 hot, 1 neutral, one ground, then you need a ground rod at the barn wired to the ground buss and the neutral is not bonded to the panel. If you run a three wire system, 2 hot, 1 neutral, then you need a ground rod wired to the ground buss and the neutral is bonded to the panel. I guess I am just trying to confirm this info before I make the changes. Maybe I am just beating a dead horse but I want to be sure it's correct.
edit: at $50 a copy from Amazon I don't think I'll buy a copy of the 2005 NEC.
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KW is right, you must satisfy your local inspector. Just a few years ago my county was using the "CABO ONE and TWO FAMILY DWELLING CODE" for compliance, but just last year they have adopded a new one, "INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE". Both of these publications super-cede the national code books. I will be recieving my 2005 NEC in a few days, email me if intrested and I'll scan and send you what your looking for.
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Well, I will take you up on that offer. I think my email it accesable in my profile. When you get the book email me and I will email you to see if you can find the section pertaining to the outbuildings.
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