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 09-25-2007, 22:34 Post: 146085
earthwrks

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 need a 110V winch

Frank, you got your "Butt Heads Helmet" on? Gonna need it hahahaha

First, taking your numbers, ONLY the first wrap layer of cable will be x". Each successive layer increases the wrap--by how much I don't know---need wire diameter, number of winds, and length of drum--you can do the math there.

And for each successive layer of cable, the line speed increases. Conversely, with each layer, the rated lift reduces (read the specs and it should say, "rated at first layer, bla, bla). And with each layer the amperage goes up too since there is more resistance.

For reference, these 4x4 trucks you see around with 12vdc winches on the front or rear draw nearly 300 amp at the first layer and as much as nearly 500 amps at full pull. Even at no-load they draw 80 amp (yes, and that's DC power but just for example). You may not see a spike in amp draw with that 3hp motor to begin with---but I'm jis' sayin'.






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 09-25-2007, 22:53 Post: 146087
hardwood

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EW; Yup, the helmet is on. And Yup, did the first/second/third wrap research. I only need nine wraps on the drum for twn ft. of lift. The drum is plenty wide for nine wraps of 3/8th's cable. Frank.






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 09-26-2007, 09:39 Post: 146089
Murf



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Frank, you're on the right track, but if I may offer a little suggestion.

Use two cables.

Figure out some way to have the winch hold two cables on the drum and have the other ends terminate separately on the fixed point of the mechanism. This way if one cable lets go for some reason the other will prevent a sudden drop.

I would also suggest you figure out some simple ratchet mechanism with spring loaded arms on the lift platform and ratchet stops or dogs on the wall that the lift climbs and a pull string to release them. That way when the lift stops the weight is not sitting on the cable (which will be springy) and in the event of a catastrophic failure of the lift, the load is held before your "Butt Head" helmet gets tested. Wink yeah right

Best of luck.






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 09-26-2007, 11:35 Post: 146097
kthompson



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Frank, it must give you comfort seeing how good of hards you are in here. Laughing out loud not sure which face means that! kt






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 09-26-2007, 16:36 Post: 146112
earthwrks

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Kenny please take the marbles outta yer mouth when you're typing Smile

need a translation: "...good of hards you are in here."






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 09-26-2007, 17:21 Post: 146114
Murf



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Jeff, wouldn't that be marbles between the fingers, not in the mouth?

You surprised me too, I figured you'd make some crack about insurance people not being too clear. Wink yeah right

But I'm jiss' sayin's all.......

Best of luck.






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 09-26-2007, 21:16 Post: 146122
hardwood

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Yes, I've always felt a lot of comfort here, most of you even agree with some of my most goofy ideas. Murf, I had been thinking about some sort of a safety brake or catch thst may allow my insurace agent to get off the double dose of Prozac. Surely there has to be an engineer or a math wiz or two here to check my calculations and maybe even my sanity. Frank.






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 09-27-2007, 02:31 Post: 146132
candoarms



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Frank,

Your idea isn't crazy in the least.

Floor space comes at a premium price. Any space you can utilize, without having to add on to the existing building, just makes good sense.

These elevators are common in industrial plants all across the nation. Overhead space goes almost entirely unused in most commercial buildings. What a waste.

You should have a safety brake on your elevator. These are usually designed to engage when the lift cable breaks. The safety brakes are held away from the elevator guides by the pressure on the cable. When that cable pressure disappears, the brakes instantly engage on the I-beam guide rails, or on some other support structure. The brakes are powered by huge coil springs that are kept under pressure by the lift cable assembly. When the tension on the lift cable goes away, the springs are allowed to extend out against the elevator guide frame.

In your case, these brakes would only engage when your elevator touches down on the concrete floor in your shop. There would never be any wear on the brake pads. The brakes would immediately disengage once the cable has tension on it, when lifting.

Whether you use this type of safety system, or something similar, I highly suggest that you rig up some device that will serve this purpose.

The following link should help you come up with a few ideas.

________________________

In 1852, Elisha Otis was working as a master mechanic at the Bedstead Manufacturing Company in Yonkers, New York. He was given the assignment to design a freight elevator to haul the company’s products. Otis was aware of the inherent problem of cable failure and sought a solution that would eliminate the hazard.

He realized that some sort of safety brake was required. The brake had to function automatically the instant the cable broke if it were to save lives and property. Otis experimented by placing a wagon spring above the hoist platform. He then attached a ratchet bar to the guide rails on each side of the hoistway. The lifting rope was fastened to the wagon spring in such a way that the weight of the hoist platform exerted just enough tension on the spring to keep it from touching the ratchet bars. If the cable snapped, however, the tension would be released from the spring and it would immediately engage the ratchets, preventing the platform from falling.

continued......
__________________________________________

Be safe, my friend.

Joel






Link:   Otis Elevator Safety Brake 

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 09-27-2007, 06:19 Post: 146133
earthwrks

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Ah yes, safety brakes. Reminds me of when my brother and I were kids back in 1978. My "enterprising" father decided on his days off we were to scrap-out the guttings from a Detroit hospital he was remodeling. A temporary construction elevator was erected on the outside of the 5-6 story building. In big plain letters on a sign on the elevator it says "NO RIDERS". So my father being who he was says, "You two are going to use this--get in".

So he tries to start the old Wisonsin gas engine that drove it and it quits. (Read: this rickety thing is on it's way to the scrap heap)

He fires it up again and says "Wait", so we don't get in. He drives it to the top, the engine quits, and it free-falls 5-6 stories. After the ground stopped shaking, we pulled our you-know-whats out of our mouths.

That was truly a "Kodak-moment" and a day I'll never forget!

Safety-schmafety. We don't need no stinking safety brakes.

Yeah. Right.

And this concludes yet another chapter of "The (mis)adventures of Jeffy" or, also known as, "Excuse me. I have to change my shorts AGAIN."






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 09-27-2007, 07:03 Post: 146134
hardwood

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KT; It's just like Allstate around here, again I'm in "Good Hands".
Joel; Thanks for the links on Otis, I'm sure it was him that they featured on the History Channel a while back about his elevators. My shed has enough overhead clearance for a loft floor at about 10 ft. above the concreet to provide 1400 sq. ft. of storage with enough head room for a 6 ft. tall person to walk around without having to duck.
EW; Would you recommend a helment for may head and butt both?
Probably 20 yrs. ago the local grain elevator took a busload of farmers in to the Chacago board of trade for a day. While touring the building I was fascinated by a bank of elevators that started at about the tenth or so floor and went up to however high the building is. The elevator cars were not enclosed by the typical elevator shaft, they seemed to be just along a wall and you could watch all of the mechanical parts work. I remember that at the very bottom of the shaft's there were several huge coil springs probably four ft. tall, I suppose they were to be a last resort in case of a catostropic free fall. I wonderd how far the car would bounce back up if that happened. Likely some adult diapers would be in order too. Frank.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Electric Forum

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