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 11-26-2002, 07:53 Post: 45406
Murf



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 Back-up power

For many years our hunt camp was 'electrified' using standard automotive light bulbs and sockets, 1157's in fact, that way we had low and high light level options. The place was 'wired' with 10ga. primary wire and standard houshold switches and a couple of plugs for 'portable' lamps. We even had a water system, a 45 gal. drum in the attic was the storage/pressure supply system and it was kept filled by a 12v. transfer pump normally used for fuel, etc. The power supply was a pair of large 12v. deep cycle batteries. Charging was accomplished by means of a home-made 'generator', a high capacity (100 amp.) truck alternator, mounted with, and driven by an old lawn mower (8 hp.) motor. I can't ever remember running out of power from the batteries, and recharge was simple, put a half tank of gas in the engine start it and leave, by the time it ran out og gas and stopped running, the batteries were all topped up.

Best of luck.






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 11-26-2002, 08:45 Post: 45413
TomG

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 Back-up power

I may not have been clear. My auxiliary generator panel has it's own built-in transfer switch. The difference between it and one on the service line is that the transfer switch is a modest 60A and 14 branch circuit slots fed by my 22.5 amp generator while a switch alone on the service line has to be rated for 200A.

Codes here require all transfer switches to have three point breakers so the neural and both hot lines are disconnected from the utility line when running on generator. Most service panel use two point main breakers, which is why they don't provide adequate disconnects from the utility lines for generator use. A miswired generator connection in combination with a faulty service ground can backfeed the utility neutral irrespective of whether the panel breakers of on or off.






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 11-26-2002, 09:13 Post: 45414
Billy

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 Back-up power

Yes, a transfer switch is the best and safest way to go but it's not a have to case (unless there's a code). You have to use your head, just like owning and using a gun.

Here in the near future I'm going to install a 100 KW generator with automatic transfer switch for my poultry houses. When I do, I'm going to run a line to my house too (with it's own transfer switch). I'd hate to be sitting here without any juice and those birds laughing at me.

In my earlier post I wrote 5,000 or 6,000 KW. I meant to say watts. 5,000 or 6,000 KW would be over doing it just a bit Smile

Billy






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 11-27-2002, 04:35 Post: 45434
TomG

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 Back-up power

I know those camps Murf is talking about but I thought it was the hunters rather than the lights that come in high and low beam.

It may seem excessive, but I'd use at least 10-gauge wire as well for a 12V system. The rating of wiring is determined by the current through it rather than the voltage. Low voltage lighting draws a lot of current for the light it produces. A quick calculation is that 10-gauge line in residential use is rated for 30-amp and 6 55W 12V lights draws around 30A. However, SAE rather than residential standards may be more appropriate. Automotive wiring dissipates heat better since it's less insulated, and residential wiring is additionally de-rated by 25%. Anyway, low voltage systems can rack up the amps and take surprisingly large wiring.






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 01-23-2003, 08:03 Post: 48000
TomG

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Well, a 7+ hour power outage in -5F temps yesterday. The backup generator finally dealt with an emergency rather than just being a convenience.

I believe I'll pay closer attention to generator maintenance. I'm not sure that just adding gas additive to old fuel, running the generator every month for 4 years with the occasional actual use for a few hours and doing only basic maintenance quite does it.

The Honda 6500 starter and tinsey battery really didn't like the cold plus 10W-30 oil, and I don't suppose 10W-30 on the air filter helped either. Had to take a 1,700 btu propane burner into the small shed where generator is and warm it up. Pull starting when the 10W-30 is like molasses also is interesting. But it did get going even if it did then take about a half-hour for it to convince the automatic choke to give up.

The 6500 did get the house back up to temp and got us through dinner and evening stuff almost normally but with a lot of juggling of circuit breakers on my part to manage the load. Still, I can't help but think that the engine should start better at -5F.






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 01-23-2003, 15:34 Post: 48020
JAZAK



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 Back-up power

you are right, my 10 hp briggs on my snow blower starts at -10 below outside! with 1-2 pulls .I use the new 0-30 mobil synthetic ,got tired of replacing broken pull ropes and it does not seem to use oil any more than before






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 01-24-2003, 09:27 Post: 48068
TomG

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I think the oil is part of it and the old gas and not enough exercise is the rest of it. Don't know but I got to reading users manuals and thinking--dangerous mixture for me. I was running 5W-30 in the generator and 0W-30 in the tractor year around. This fall I ended up changing to 10W-30 for the generator and 5W-30 for the tractor.

In the generator's case, I started wondering if the air-cooled engine may never get hot enough to thicken multi-grade oils with fairly light loads on very cold days. Actually the choke never did open up until I gave up and applied a load to get it hotter. I don't know if that could happen but I guess I read the manual again which specs 10W-30 and nothing else and so I start thinking and wondering. Maybe somebody knows.

In the tractor's case, it didn't have any problems starting in temps down to -20F in past winters. It does take awhile for the oil pressure light go off though. I figured that maybe slightly thicker oil would provide better initial lubrication or get the pressure up faster. Who knows maybe my reasoning is backwards.






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 04-09-2003, 07:54 Post: 52830
Mrwurm



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 Back-up power

I know this thread is a bit aged, but I thought this was a good place to jump in. Tom, thanks for the info about using a three point switch as opposed to just shutting off the main breaker. I knew using the main breaker was unsafe but I did'nt know why.

Question:
My neighbor has a 10,000 watt generator (Generac) and he has two 240V outlets on his. One says 240V XXAmps, and the other says 240V 'Full Power'. What could possibly be the difference?

My generator (5,500 watts Generac Wheelhouse) only has one 240V outlet. Is mine a 'Full Power' outlet?

Jerry






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 04-09-2003, 09:12 Post: 52838
Murf



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Because of health concerns this past winter we had some modifications done around the house. One of the chronic problems that finally got fixed was the problem of starting a frozen generator in less than ideal times and temperatures.

The fix turned out to be surpisingly easy and cheap!! The electrician found that there was more than enough room in the conduit that runs from the shed where the generator lives (the pool equipment building actually) to the house. They fished some new wires through and put a new, full-size battery (like you would put in a P/U) in the basement next to the panel, for extra measure the battery is hooked to a timed 1 amp. trickle charge to keep it full & happy. The whole setup worked very well when tested in temperatures of -25C. (-12F. to the rest of the world).

I assume it would be just as effective to strap a reguler battery to a hand-truck and keep it handy in the garage or similar, then just wheel it out to the gen-set when you wanted to start it.

Best of luck.






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 04-09-2003, 17:18 Post: 52863
cutter



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 Back-up power

Made good use of my generator this past week. We were out for several days due to the ice storm here. I moved my electric service to a pole half way down my driveway and had a weatherproof switch box installed. The changeover to gen power is easy from there, I simply throw the 2oo amp switch in that box and plug the generator into my 220v outlet in the garage. It is enough to run the freezer, refrigerator, lights and selectively run the electric H2O.






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