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6X4 Gator Sometimes Shudders after Stopping
I just bought a 2000 Gator 6X4 diesel with 420 hours (!) on it. I've changed all the fluids & filters, lubed everything, adjusted the drive chains, and cleaned out the primary clutch per the tech manual instructions. It has the late (18 mph) version of the clutch assembly.
Sometimes when I stop, the primary clutch doesn't fully disengage. This causes the belt to thrash while it continues to try to drive the secondary clutch, with resultant "shuddering" of the whole machine just as it's about to come to a full stop. The shuddering continues with the engine laboring after it fully stops, so it's not being caused by the brakes. If I pop it out of gear, the shuddering stops, and the primary clutch then releases completely. I verified the clutch behavior by watching it while driving and stopping with the cargo bed raised.
Examining the primary clutch, I observed that the rollers on the spider arm ends each have a distinct flat spot. Everything else looks OK, and the spider moves freely and snaps back to the outward position when I push it in by hand, then release it. Could the flats be the cause of occasional "shudder" when stopping, or should I be looking for something else? I suppose that, regardless, the rollers should be replaced, but the kit from JD (AM133889), consisting of nothing but three rollers, six buttons, and maybe a couple of washers or bushings, goes for $130. Yipe.
Thanks.
- John
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6X4 Gator Sometimes Shudders after Stopping
You are in a unique situation. Your dealer has had that roller kit for many years. You used to be able to buy the rollers and buttons by themselves and the part number was what you gave. Since then,they have added the whole clutch spyder to the kit. They kept the same part number but raised the price from 15.00 to 130.00. If you get him to order you one you will get a spyder and rollers completely assembled. Your clutch has to be binding up when there is side belt tension on it. Maybe the bushing inside is worn. If it snaps back with the belt off the spring must be ok. Try to wobble the moveable sheave side to side and see if it is loose on the shaft. You refered to the spyder snapping back in your posting. The spyder is screwed to the post and has the rollers on it, what snaps back is the moveable sheave. On the flat spots, if anything,your clutch would be open farther at rest since the rollers rest on the flyweights in the static position. If they have flat spots, they will seat into the flyweights and the sheave will go in farther making the distance more between sheaves. Another thing that could be happening is one or two of the rollers could be on a flat spot and the other(s) could be on a normal part of the roller. That would create a binding situation since the moveable sheave wouldn't be resting normally on the flyweights. You should offer the dealer 15.00 for his rollers, that's all he's got in them.
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6X4 Gator Sometimes Shudders after Stopping
Thanks, gatoraider, for your insightful reply. You're right: I mis-spoke when I said the spider snaps back; it's the outer (movable) half-sheave. I'll have a look at it this morning and see if it has play in it. If it does, I think I'm looking at a whole new clutch assembly, since according to JD's IPB, there's no bushing between the movable half-sheave and the shaft.
Since the flat spots on the rollers are quite pronounced, I'm guessing that they probably are, indeed, causing binding when one or two of them are resting on the flat while the other(s) are on the round area.
Not surprisingly, my JD dealer just told me TS - the rollers aren't available separately. Not surprising, since the service manager also evaded my request to speak directly to a mechanic with hands-on experience. I'll try another local dealer in the future, but I don't expect anything different.
As G. Gordon Liddy said, "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and their minds will follow."
Will post the results after I get things working.
- John
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6X4 Gator Sometimes Shudders after Stopping
Replacing the spider and roller assembly did the trick. Apparently, when one or two of the rollers were on the flat spots, it caused the movable sheave to bind on the shaft and not release completely. Works swell now.
Making the repair was not a job for the faint of heart. My experience may be a little helpful for others:
It was easy enough to fabricate my own JDG813-1 puller with a 3" length of 1/2" steel rod and a 9/16" fine bolt to back it up.
Coming up with a holder for the clutch assembly required a little more creativity. I ran two 3/8" lag bolts almost all the way down and 3" apart into the wide side of a 2X4 and clamped the 2X4 into a vise. The bolt heads fit nicely into two opposing recesses in the back of the fixed sheave. I used a 3/8" X 6" or so lag bolt & washer through the center of the clutch and into the 2X4 to hold it solid.
I ended up modifying a spanner that had been used to remove the front hubs from an old Chevy 4X4 to grab the spider. It took a great deal of care to avoid doing damage.
I'm now trying to find the "real" holder and spanner, but not at the obscene prices JD charges.
- John
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6X4 Gator Sometimes Shudders after Stopping
john,
I have the same problem with my Gator. Tried all afternoon to remove the clutch with no success. I do no have a service manual, so I have no clue how this device you made to pull the clutch works. Would you mind to explain in a little greater detail about the process.
Thanks,
Allen
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6X4 Gator Sometimes Shudders after Stopping
OK, Allen, here ya go...
To remove the clutch, you can easily duplicate the JDG813-1 removal tool. Cut a 3" length of 1/2" unthreaded steel rod. Square off and de-burr the ends, but don't round them over. After removing the mounting bolt & washer from the end of the primary clutch, insert the rod into the crankshaft hole. Follow it up with a 9/16"-18 X 3" SAE bolt (I was surprised to find that it wasn't metric). Hand-tighten it until it contacts the 3" rod. You can then either tighten the bolt manually, or, as the tech manual recommends, carefully use an impact wrench. When run far enough in, the whole clutch assembly will pop free of the tapered shaft.
When using an impact wrench (which is by far the easiest way to separate the clutch from the crankshaft), be very careful not to run the bolt in so far that the unthreaded portion runs past the entry to the hole in the crankshaft. If this happens, you'll clobber the female threads at the end.
Once off, you can achieve the function of the JDG813-3 holding tool with a little rigging. Drill three 1/4" pilot holes in a straight line 1-1/2" apart lengthwise in the center of the wide edge of a scrap 2X4. Run two 3/8" X 2"(+/-) lag screws into the pilot holes at either end. Screw them down almost flush with the face of the 2X4, leaving about 1/8" of space below the heads. Place the clutch on the 2X4 with the stationary sheave down. Align the two lag bolt heads with opposing depressions in the back of the stationary sheave. Run a long 3/8" lag screw (about 6" long, as I recall) and washer through the clutch mounting hole and into the middle pilot hole on the 2X4. Tighten it firmly, but not excessively. Mount the 2X4 in a vise, and the clutch is now firmly retained.
The JDG813-2 spanner is the sticking point. Initially, I used a spanner that was intended for removing the front hubs from an old Chevy half ton 4X4. It was pretty tricky. I removed three of the six tangs that meshed with the hub nut, leaving three to grab the spider arms. The tangs were very tiny, so keeping the spanner in contact with the spider arms while applying the considerable force necessary to break it free was hardly trivial, but I managed.
Subsequently, I milled off the remaining tangs, then milled three 1/2" deep openings evenly spaced around the circumference of the spanner to accommodate the three spider arms. Now I have a fully functional equivalent of the JDG813-2. Fortunately, I have a cousin with a Bridgeport machine. You might also be able to use a short piece of 2" schedule 40 iron pipe, although the inner diameter may be a tiny bit too small. There's really no other way to grab onto the spider to remove and replace it, what with the torque spec. being 100 ft-lbs.
I've done a fair bit of searching and found no source for the spanner for a cost much less than the $56 JD wants for it.
The happy ending to my story is that after replacing the spider assembly, all the shuddering problems with my Gator were completely resolved.
Hope you find my experience useful.
- John
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6X4 Gator Sometimes Shudders after Stopping
Allen -
So far, I haven't been successful at getting my (non-anonymous) e-mail verified with TractorPoint, so am unable to send private messages; however, if you give me your e-mail address, I can provide you with a few relevant pages from the tech manual that may prove helpful.
- John
Phosphorus65{at}gmail{dot}com
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6X4 Gator Sometimes Shudders after Stopping
Wanted to bring this back to the top to thank you for the tutorial. I broke down my primary clutch today and came apart just like it is suppose to! Swapped out old rollers with new ones from Gatoraider. Put it back together with red locktite and reinstalled on the machine. Thank you again so much.
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