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poles in the ground vs concrete footings with anchor
Not sure if anyone else was aware of the changes in Pressure Treated lumber or if was a nationwide change?
But as of April 04' the formular was changed to reduce the arsenic content. The "New" Nature wood" (nice name) Has a few issues; You MUST use stailess or DOUBLE dipped galv. fasteners,also when flashing will contact it, that must be copper flashing. This new formular will eat aluminum and steel. I also noticed a 15 yr life on some I have bought,not 40 yrs like the old stuff. FYI
I have heard it is a matter of time before a bank will require you to test your soil around your deck of your house(when selling) with the old formular wood. I could be builing alot of deck's in the future.
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poles in the ground vs concrete footings with anchor
I have used the new pressure treated wood to build a privacy fence at my place. I chose the specially coated screws over stainless to save money. They have a porcelain-like coating that comes in a few different colors. Although the screws were marketed as made for the new presure treated wood, I have already noted some oxidation of the screw heads after less than six months. I also used some brass plated steel hinges of the type made for regular doors and they are already rusting. The few double-dipped galvanized screws that I used seem to be holding up a little better, but I think stainless steel, copper, solid brass or bronze fasteners and hardware must be used if you don't want to replace them. The new wood is horrible and more expensive than the old.
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poles in the ground vs concrete footings with anchor
The coated screws? Were they DECK-Mates? Greenish with a sqaure head bit driver.
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poles in the ground vs concrete footings with anchor
If you want the best, how about using Insulated concrete forms for the 42" footings. This will keep the slab (that you pour later) from getting cold and sweating if you heat the shed. You could attach your brackets to the wet concrete footing, and then just add the poles. Save money by not needing treated lumber and you have your rat wall. A good idea?
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poles in the ground vs concrete footings with anchor
Around here, Code says any wood contacting concrete has to be treated, so there would have to be at least a 2-by section under the post. I wrestled with bracket idea, but then decided sinking the poles in the wet concrete was the best way to go. Reason: from a structural standpoint the sunken poles offered much more rigidity on their own individual merit and even more as a unit. Poles in brackets would require a lot of side wall bracing not only in the corners but all along the side wall, not to mention diagonally in a horizontal plane where the trusses sit (as in conventional building practices). Also the mid sections of either eave wall would allow the trusses to pivot at the tops of the mid-wall posts---a good wind would push in the sides of the wall and not necessarily the corners. FBi Buildings in my second to last post uses a "system" of creating a mortise-and-tendon joint where the truss meets the post to make it rigid. I once seen a 3-story barn strictly used for hay storage that had to overcome this problem--they used crisscross diagonal bracing made of 1" round bars connecting in the very center of the barn's usable area--not practical for a pole building!
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poles in the ground vs concrete footings with anchor
Grinder: I don't remember the brand name, but your description is dead-on, except my screws had the new phillips/squaredrive combination.
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poles in the ground vs concrete footings with anchor
I have a tree stand that has been in the woods with just spoils around it for more than 13 years now. Yes its 16' tall and 8x8 and has made it thru a few tornados that took out 50 acres of my 160 and many more storms w/winds in excess of 70mph. I am a firm believer in no cement around the poles. As for sand and gravel/pea or other around the poles. By me anyway that would only make the water around the pole worse for the water does not drain in the clay/rocky soil. Anything that would be like a hole with sand/gravel in it would just suck up any water and then hold it like a basin.
The new treated wood I have used is great. Here is a statement describing it.
KDAT lumber is lumber that has been kiln-dried after treatment. Pressure treatment involves impregnating wood with preservative chemicals. As it dries after treatment, lumber often shrinks, cups, and warps. But if pressure-treated lumber is dried before it’s installed, it will undergo only limited dimensional changes. KDAT lumber has been dried and “pre-shrunk” to prevent substantial shrinkage, cupping, or warping. It’s dried in a controlled environment at the treatment plant—not after it has already been built into place and become part of a structure
Also be careful which quality you buy, the cheapest is not the best and just because it says green treat does not mean it can be used under ground, or even as a ground contact. There is AC2 end use-above ground! Then a AC2 perma wood ground contact also a marine grade below surface.
A non-arsenic treated wood imho is the best for everyone around its use. Remember this
Just because it say's Green Treated does not mean it can contact the ground. Do your home work on which treated method and quality you use. The dollar more a board for the better product will go a long way in the life of your project. Also any fasteners used underground NEED to be stainless, and buy a quality stainless screw. Read up on it before you buy. here again just because it is stainless dont mean it wont rust or corrode. usually the cheaper screws (stainless) are NOT a deal. If in dought ask! If still in dought buy the spendy ones more times than not you will be buying the best.
LAST THING
Very important, keep your tags from the ENDS OF THE TREATED WOOD. ALso if you feel real ambitious take a picture of all your wood with the tags on (while in a pile) and then take a pic of your completed project with a dtaed reciept and a news paper (with the date showing on it)all in the same pic.
Keep your tags for the wood?// WHY??? because that is your warrenty in most cases. You will have to contact the company for your warrenty if you need it in a few years and you will also have to prove that is what you used and when. (IE: that is why you take picture's, it is not definate proof that is what you used but it is enough for the company NOT to fight you.
3 things to remember
1. Check your application and buy the right treated
lumber for your project.
2. Keep your tags and proof of buiding with it.
3. Wrap the outside of your ground contact lumber in areas where the ground heaves with a product that will move with the ground and not want to pull on your poles (like tar paper or styro-foam.
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poles in the ground vs concrete footings with anchor
back to the thread earlier about rotting treated posts.Add my2cents of..encounters. Alot of variables come into play, I've witnessed the extremes one post rotted at the grade level in 18 years anda neighbor who reworked part of his barn -posts 30yrsold looked like the day they were placed.Both were in sand/'road gravel' fill. We figure its the post(wood) itself and actual treatment received and the environment they end up in- pH of soil, drainage,freeze/thaw etc. Ifigure it's a gamble any direction -post, concrete, steel all have pros/cons and $$$ tied to them. Along with what purpose and duration were using them from lowly/quikie toolshed to "taj mahal" showpalace
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poles in the ground vs concrete footings with anchor
While I was looking at some info on pole barns a while back, one of the builders had an option of a heavy plastic form that the post fit tightly into and then the whole thing was put in the ground with 4-6 inches of the plastic form left above grade. Has anyone heard about these and if they work?
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poles in the ground vs concrete footings with anchor
paulss, Post Protector I believe, I mentioned them in my earlier post on page one. If I had gone with wood, I would have almost certainly gone with them on whatever building I put up.
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11-25-2004, 06:46 
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