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Hybrid cars
Hi all! I have a '04 Toyota Prius. It is not dinky by any measure, averages 52 mpg without driving like a grandmother, and does this in total comfort since climate control is std. The efficiency is due to regenerative braking and a continuousing variable transmission which allows any ratio of electric and engine power that the moment requires. A hybrid does not accelerate quickly, but once at speed will maintain speed with VERY little energy consumption (aerodynamic design over style). No laws of physics are violated, simply an honest effort at better milage. Detroit could have done this but didn't - ever ask why?
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I guess dinky is in the eye of the beholder. A good friend of mine has a Prius and we drive around in it all the time. It's dinky in my opinion, but the color dash display is fun to watch.
My understanding is that development was subsidized a bit by the government and sales were encouraged through tax credits so maybe Detroit chose not to be a party to that arrangement. I don't blame 'em if that's the case, subsidies come and go and when they go guess who is left holding the bag? If it were my manufacturing company I wouldn't want to make something that couldn't profitably sell on it's own merits.
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Hi Ken,
Yes a '04 Prius is no Caddy, but if you drove around in an '02 or '03, it was much smaller then. The '04 Prius back seat is bigger than the Accord or Camry in knee room. These are two of the largest selling cars these days, so the beholder is referencing something else. Anyway, the choice to buy a fuel efficient car and not worry about the cost of fuel was not influenced by tax breaks, etc. It is simply a great commuter car. I do not recommend a hybrid as an only car for a family although it is very capable of being one. The trunk size is too small for trips requiring 4+ bags.
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My friends Prius is an '02 so I guess it was smaller. He has had great luck with it and it's been a reliable car. I hope I didn't sound like I was criticizing them, but compared to our Taurus the 02 is a small car (at least on the outside). I'll have to look at the 04 models sometime. Certainly can't blame anyone for shopping for fuel economy these days. We're looking at replacing the wifes Taurus with a Jeep Liberty Diesel in the next year and I'm looking for a used VW TDI to get better mileage as well.
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slbroug: My 2001 VW Jetta TDI (Turbo Direct Injected diesel) gets the same king of milage (+/- 50MPG) and DOES accellerate quite nicely, also full climate control and all the goodies. Plus it cost less than $20K new.
Ken: Good luck finding a used TDI, they are like gold around here! If you find one, you'll love it.
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Car and Driver recently compared a Civic hybrid, Toyota Echo and Prius with a Jetta TDI. Here are some general specs from the mag.
Honda civic hybrid:
Gas engine 85 hp 87 ft lbs
electric motor 13 hp 36 ft lbs
continuously variable trans
0-60 11.7
43 mpg high way
53 mpg city observed
EPA estimates
47 highway
48 city
Toyota Echo:
Gas engine 108 hp 105 ft lbs
0-60 9.8
41 mpg highway
42 mpg city
EPA estimates
39 mpg highway
33 mpg city
Toyota Prius
Gas engine 76 hp 82 ft lbs
electric motor 67 hp 295 ft lbs
0-60 10.1
50 mpg highway
52 mpg city observed
EPA estimates
51 mpg highway
60 mpg city
Volkswagen Jetta GLS TDI
Turbo Diesel Engine 100 hp 177 ft lbs
0-60 11.2
42 mpg highway
33 mpg city observed
EPA estimates
44 mpg highway
33 mpg city
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AV8R, I know what you mean about the TDIs. I've been keeping an eye on eBay motors for one to pop up that might be in my area. I'd take a Jetta, Passat, or Golf TDI but no Beetle - those are ladies cars!
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Thanks everyone for the response to my Hybrid Car question. Now you're getting me interested, I'm going to check out those listed by car and driver. I most likely won't buy anything right now, but as in all products where competition is high the products will get better. Not "if" but likely "when" a new discovery in the technology of the hybrids is found and perfected to make them less expensive, such as cheaper, lighter, more efficent batteries, etc.. Just imagine the oil savings possible if even a third of the cars on the road today could have their mileage improved by ten mpg. Someone brought up the subject of using idle farmland to produce soy diesel. Not a lot of those acres are really capable of growing soybeans without tremendous soil losses due to erosion, etc.. Most of that land is best suited to being in grass, which may hold promise as a bio mass energy producer to perhaps replace natural gas in powerplants, who knows? We do need to get real serious about our future energy needs. I do remember my early years without electricity or a telephone, we got along just fine, but I really don't want to go back to the "Good Ole Days" as folks call them, the "Good New Days" are now, lets try to keep them. Frank.
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When you are looking at hybrid vehicles, you should take the time to look at the Ford Escape Hybrid model which was just released this month. I understand it has a highway mileage rating of 40 mpg. It is the first SUV of its kind. If you look at the sales volumes of the previous models brought over from the pacific rim the numbers are nothing when looking at the whole picture. I'm sorry but can't stop waiving the red, white and blue.
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Hi AV8R,
The Jetta TDI is a fine car. It is smaller than the '04 Prius in any dimension. I sold a 2000 Passat Wagon when I bought the '04 Prius for $21K. When the battery charge is near max, I can accelerate every bit as fast as a TDI. The Prius gets 295 lb-ft from the electric motor + 82 lb-ft from the engine, so it is a capable sprinter. The battery charge state determines standing start pickup for this reason. The reduced emission advantages of a hybrid are unmatched as compared to diesel.
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