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Hybrid cars
Folks, I am hearing some incorrect statements about how petroleum products are refined and produced. Here is a good link that spells the process out pretty good and should hopefully clear things up for everyone and perhaps give all a better understanding of what goes into the process.
Link:
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Hybrid cars
That is what I was trying to say but again I put wrong terms in that completely destroyed my thoughts.
Thanks for the info chief.
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With my advanced stage of CRS I have the same problem Oneace. ;o) Thank goodness for bookmarks!
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I am semi dyslexic and usually I have 1000 thoughts running at the same time and it is hard to concentrate on one at a time. I do not know what is wrong with me I have never been to see a doctor but I probably should. I may have adult ADD but I tend to think that is a made up illness?
Yes thank goodness for bookmarks and spell checks.
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Scientic American had a great article on hybrids and various alternative fuel economies (e.g. hydrogen) in the May issue. I highly recommend the article.
It got me into a long Email discussion with a buddy on diesel vs gasoline, to the point I had to pull out my old thermo text book to explain efficiency differences between diesels and Otto cycle (gas) engines.
The current crop of hybrid cars are gasoline because Honda and Toyota were trying to deal with California emissions requirements and get the ridiculous Zero Emission Vehicle requirements quashed (ZEV is dumb, Low EV is realistic). Since Americans don't like diesels and fuel availabilty is iffy in places they went with gas. If you really want make the most efficient car it would be a diesel-electric hybrid.
Those of you waiting for the hydrogen economy to save us will have a very long wait. Hydrogen is a secondary fuel, not a primary energy source, and as a fuel it is hard to handle and not very dense.
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Couldn't help but to jump in here. Before I bash internal combustion I should say that I'm addicted to it in all its forms. That being said, a gasoline engine such as that powering a car typically converts only 20 to 30 percent of the energy released in combustion into usable work at the flywheel. The rest is lost in a variety of ways, mostly through heat sent out in the exhaust and through the cooling system. Think about it, the expansion (compression ratio) allowed for capturing the energy is about 10 to 1, while the expansion to ambient pressure in converting from liquid starting material to gaseous products is 1000 to 1. We let a lot of high pressure hot gases out as waste. So, there are huge opportunities to recover some of this using hybrid designs or other means. In a hybrid, the idea is to use an undersized but efficient gas engine for power and run it in a narrow, efficient rpm range. All power comes from this engine, and it ultimately is sufficient because it can continue producing power during coasting, for eample, and that power is stored in a battery and released through an electric moter as needed.
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kwschumm,
Sorry about your Corolla experience. The facts (e.g. - CR) suggest your car was not typical of the brand. You'd have a hard time finding many Toyota owners, past or present that would agree they rate POS status. The Prius is certainly bland in some respects, but fuel economy, emissions and quality of build are as good as it gets. If the world wants diesel powered cars, or hybrid diesels, I will not protest. But I suspect that diesel cars are unlikely to gain widespread popularity with gas hybrids as an alternative.
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I had the opportunity to drive my Uncle's Primus (I think an 03 model) while on vacation. I have to admit it was an interesting little car. Great for 1 or 2 persons (like most of us drive most of the time), not overly peppy but not too bad either. I may think about one in a few years if they are still around as a weekday commuter vehicle. I still need a truck on weekends and for towing.
I don't think they are playing with physics too much here either. The main savings in town driving come from shutting off the engine when you aren't moving. I have a GPS mounted in my car and often look at how much time in a short trip is spent "Stopped" vs "Moving". It's a good indicator of what is killing the city mileage. They do gain a few points by recovering energy with the regenerative braking, but I wonder how much that actually saves. I think the Toyota system uses the main motor for braking not something in each wheel. If so, since it's already there as a motor why not also use it as a generator.
If a different design requires extra components, I wonder if its really worth the extra complexity.
The extra highway mileage seems to come from having a very small engine with enough power to keep the mass moving. It uses the electric motor to help the gas engine accelerate. Like the previously posted specs indicate, with both the motor and gas engine working together, it has very decent torque.
I'm really waiting for a reasonably priced 4x4 truck. If they can get a truck up from the 15-18 mpg range into the 30-35 mpg range with hybrid technology, and keep the price reasonable, I think they will sell quite a few. If it wasn't for towing concerns I'd buy one. I bet it would handle a little utility trailer any way. Just not a 3500# tractor on a car hauler.
In the SUV market, I wouldn't be suprised to see that diesel/hybrid combo show up. If they throw in the ability to access the generator with some 120 volt and 240 volt outlets like I've seen info on, I think it would make a great contractor truck. A few people in rural areas may be interested as well.
Just my slightly wordy $.02
jparker
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slbroug, my experience with CRs ratings have been spotty at best. I've bought a few top rated items that have sucked big time and after my last experience gave up on them. I agree that Toyota's generally are decent, but I'd probably not buy another. I still don't think hybrids are a long term solution though. The complexity is just too expensive to produce profitably IMHO, but if they help the manufacturer meet CAFE standards they can make up for it in their product mix with bigger, faster, more powerful, and more profitable vehicles.
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