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Windmills for electricity
Dear friends,
I'd like to post some information here for anyone who may be interested.
This comes from the American Wind Energy Association, or the AWEA.
Included here is a study done on the costs of producing wind energy, both with and without the Federal Energy Tax incentitives and Production Tax Cuts.
When removing the federal tax incentives and production tax cuts, the price of producing wind energy nearly doubles. (40% more per kWh)
The most glaring issue here is the Renewable Energy Production Incentive. (REPI)
Corporations who produce electrical power do not qualify for tax cuts.....since they currently pay none. Under the Renewable Energy Legislation, these companies would actually receive a payment from the federal government, which falls under the REPI program.
The REPI program makes the production of electricty from wind energy very profitable, by cutting the cost to the producer by nealy 1/2. Of course, such federal spending programs are never permanent, which places these financing packages at very high risk.
See the link below.
Joel
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Windmills for electricity
Joel; First off please point out to me any statment I made on this thread that the windmills are owned by big oil companies. Second, the website you refer to has a first line that states that the cost to produce wind enegy has dropped by more thn 80% in the past 20 years, surely you find some fault in that too. Third, you must live a miserable life of never stop worring about someone else making more money than you do. that is the drift I get from all your writings. Fourth, My Dad always said, "Never waste your time arguing with someone for who's opinion you have no respect" I think you get my point. Frank.
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Windmills for electricity
Hardwood,
I was only trying to point out the reason why so many big oil and utility companies are building these wind mills.
It's a profitable business, but only because of the huge tax incentives being offered at this time.
Big corporations can finance the building of these wind mills, because of the low interest rates on their loans. No other individual or company can get such low rates on the loans.
On top of the low interest rate loans, these companies also receive tax incentives, or federal payments, for building them......which cuts the production cost by about half.
It's all there for you to read at your own convenience.
Joel
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Windmills for electricity
Joel, if you read other sites the big picture becomes clearer.
It's been proven by actual hard cost surveys of existing electricity generating facilities that it cost about the same amount of money per Kw of capacity to put a nuke or a windmill online and making power.
The big difference is in size and scalability.
You can't economically make anything but a BIG nuke, and the ongoing costs are far higher with a nuke than a windmill, there's no waste to deal with, and when it needs VERY little staffing, whether it's making electricity or not, try that with a nuke.
It doesn't matter who builds them, runs them, or gets the financing for them, the bottom line is the nation needs more electricity at a lower cost, in both dollars and environmental damage, wind does that.
Best of luck.
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Windmills for electricity
"It doesn't matter who builds them, runs them, or gets the financing for them, the bottom line is the nation needs more electricity at a lower cost, in both dollars and environmental damage, wind does that."
That's a great point but it doesn't touch Joel's message of how badly the markets get screwed up with Govco interference.
Mankind forever has tended toward more information and thus more efficiency; no doubt wind power will prove to be an example of that, as you say. It's still the case that any coercive interference--which is what any governmental interference is--will hinder the efficient manifestation of the technology. This is a simple fact, owing to the nature of human activity.
There is a reason the free markets of the United States worked, back when we had them.
The intents don't really matter. Never mind that considerable skepticism is due regarding the modern-day intents of governmental action anyway! jk
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Windmills for electricity
I agree that governmental interference in the markets is generally detrimental. However, with volume the unit price goes down. If tax breaks can jump start wind energy production, and if the volume becomes large enough that the per-unit price comes down to where it makes sense on a much smaller scale, then maybe it will be a good thing in the long run. It would be wonderful if every home had solar panels or wind turbines for self-sufficiency and to feed any excess back into the grid. The only way that will happen is if the per-unit price comes down, and that will only happen with volume.
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Windmills for electricity
Murf, you're on target with the "nearly infinite lifespan" comment. With proper maintenance and technology upgrades, some of our aircraft and some ground equipment types in the USAF inventory are in their fifth decade and still performing adequately (if not better). This could be very true of windmills, as they could have phenomenal lifespans.
As with most mechanical devices, operator error and lack of proper maintenance is attributed with failures.
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Windmills for electricity
"However, with inflation at about 4% per year..."
Heh. That was back in the old days, I'm afraid.
I like how the Fed intends to "bolster the economy." Neat trick. I trust everyone here understands that only production can bolster an economy. The Fed can only change how it's denominated.
And change it will...maybe we won't need to mint nickels and dimes anymore!
I can already hear the Chinese (and everyone else across the seas) throwing our bonds back at us. "Here, you want 'em? You got 'em!"
Buying the Brooklyn Bridge wouldn't be half as stupid as falling for this old charade of making money cheaper. But somehow so many "experts" manage to fall for it. Maybe they have something to gain, hmm?
It's hard to believe anything as idiotic as devaluing our currency, could possibly be unintentional. That's the scary part IMO, and why Joe Doe better wake up.
As far as windmills in volume, economies of scale are physical systems which add value to the process, making the end product more affordable. Yes, that's reflected in the price of something (when dealing with at least a semi-rigid currency anyway), but price is not value. The fact that you can throw dollars at something to make it (appear!) cheaper, doesn't change its value to consumers, nor does it change whatever benefits economies of scale bring to the job. Those are strictly mind-driven physical acts which operate most efficiently when they're allowed to operate most efficiently, without the restraints or artificial subsidies of nutcase politicos trying to fatten their wallets and retirements.
It's amazing how consistently a regular farmer can get screwed. Last year at this time, there were dreams of 4.50-5.00/bu corn, with many farmers finally anticipating getting some value for their work...and look where it is instead. Now it'll go toward five bucks easy enough, but you won't be able to buy a gallon of milk with that bushel. And see just how more "affordable" windmills become. Sure they'll become cheaper...how could they not, with both ongoing experience and economies of scale? But like everything else, they'll become further and further away from regular people who truly stand to benefit from their usage and work out the details of scalability that Murf was talking about. Between the regs and the paperwork, it'll be out of reach for Joe Doe...so he'll just pay a little more to his local monopolized utility and /they'll/ get the benefits of those economies of scale, not to mention all the ongoing tax benefits.
But hey, at least Govco's working on taxing internet connections, so that should get better soon too!
Okay, that's /my/ rant for today. I better jump on that tractor and get some real work done. jk
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Windmills for electricity
Hardwood, clap, clap, clap.
Do not want to rain on anyone's parade it has sort of been pointed out here already, sometimes it must be a BIG BAD COOPERATIONS THAT DOES it for it to work. The task demands their resources and deep pockets. Come to think of it, why don't you buy tractor made by the smallest company out there since the big companies are all so evil and get all kinds of government kick backs which no deserving person or small company can ever get. May I get nosey and ask, do you buy Dole or Green Giant food or do you only buy from the local farmer? Had a McDonalds or Burger King meal or any other chain? How about your computer chip, or software. Tell me about the pickup you drive, don't tell me you bought a Chevy, Ford, Dodge or Toyota. Just about what I thought.
While you are at it don't forget the bidding preference given to minority owned companies (hey these are mostly small businesses, guess the none minority owned small business are also evil).
I want to state I make my living working with small business. The very small business, not those that employee 100 or 75 employees, rather for the most part 4 or 12 or such. I believe I know small business very well. Many buy and sell to LARGE businesses.
Well there is my rant. God Bless the large companies who do what the small ones are not able to afford to do. God Bless the honest and ethical businesses of all sizes. kt
I must add, it has dawned on me there just may be a politician or two here or want to be for there sure is a lot of hot air at times! oh well, helps the windmills to turn.
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Windmills for electricity
"Well there is my rant. God Bless the large companies who do what the small ones are not able to afford to do. God Bless the honest and ethical businesses of all sizes. kt"
Good words. I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm against large companies or something. Larger the better, I say, as long as they got there ethically and honestly like you say. I'm from the Motor City; I can understand the benefits of economies of scale and mammoth businesses.
Besides, what would I want for my small business, except that it become as large as possible? I'm with Reverend Ike on this point---the best thing I can do for the poor is not become one of 'em!
I'm against /coercive/ business, commonly called "the rackets" or something like that. And unfortunately, nobody's yet devised a government that can operate with any tool except coercion. That's all...it's the rackets which have stopped a million Joe Does from having windmills and developing them some time ago. It's the rackets which stop Joe Doe from everything he's regulated out of doing, or taxed to subsidize somebody else doing it. The rackets are wrong, and no amount of do-gooder drivel can change that. That's all I'm saying, nothing more and nothing less.
Hope that clarifies my POV somewhat, and makes it less offensive for you. jk
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