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PTO Generators Observations
Ontario has amongst the tighest electrical safety regulations of any jurisdiction in North America.
Unfortunately we also have a great number of very old electrical services still in operation, and oddly enough our reg.'s don't require that existing services be upgraded.
When that is combined with things like the big ice storm a few years back, the great blackout in the summer of 2003, and the Y2K scare the result is that we have a lot of generators hooked up to painfully out-dated wiring.
I have a neighbour at the cottage who regularly fires up a 25KW diesel genset and feeds it into his KNOB & TUBE wired 100 year old post & beam cottage!!!
Some people are just plain stoooooopid.
Best of luck.
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PTO Generators Observations
First let me say that my house is wired correctly for a generator, and not that anyone should do an improper generator hookup, but if you are in a pinch, there is an easy and almost safe way. Make sure you switch off your main 100, 200, or more amp service disconnect first, this protects the power company. Then, just make a double male extention cord that plugs into your generator 240 outlet and also to a 240 welder, compressor, etc. outlet. Make sure the generator output from it's 240 socket is less than or equal to the amp breaker you are back feeding. This lets you choose any circuit in the house to run and isolates you from the power company. It also keeps you from any "rewiring". I use this method at times when I am renovating a house that is not connected to the power company at all.
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PTO Generators Observations
Then, just make a double male extention cord that plugs into your generator 240 outlet and also to a 240 welder, compressor, etc. outlet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is dangerous.
No extension cord should have a mail plug on each end.
This is an open invitation to someone getting shocked or electrocuted.
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PTO Generators Observations
Denwood, I agree with Ibrown, this is not safe, and you said it yourself "almost safe". There is no middle ground when it comes to safety, its either safe or its not safe. Any installation that fails to meet code, NEC and/or NESC, is considered a dangerous situation.
I would suggest on an existing house panel that is not connected to the utility source that you do the following: remove the main service conductors to the main breaker (typically 200amp) from the panel then connect your generator to the main breaker lugs. This way you will have a visual open connection to the utility and the distribution panel breakers will protect you and the circuit. However, you can overload the generator. A typical house(1500-2500sqft) in our area will use 9 - 13kw. Be sure the connecting conductors between the generator and panel are rated to carry the load. Better still, get advice from your electrical inspectors. Dave
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PTO Generators Observations
Dave is right. Denwoods method could likely kill an unsuspecting linesman who failed to carefully check all three conductors assuming the lines were safe.
In fact this is EXACTLY the methgod used by my neighbour that led to his electrical service being disconnected by the utility.
In almost all cases the "mains" in a house are only double pole single throw switches, this means only the two "hot" wires are disconnected, this leaves the neutral side and the ground bonded through to the incoming lines. They are the potential problem.
If under these circumstances you had a faulty wire somewhere you could, using the ground and neutral conductors electrify the lines in front of your house.
This is what electrocutes linesmen working on "dead" lines.
The other hazard is merely burniung down the house or wrecking some expensive electronic equipment. Since you are tapping into the 220v. side of the wiring and depending on luck to have a balnced split between the two legs of the 220 wiring you run the risk of having all (or even most) of the load on one side of the generator. This could lead to very low voltages and much higher than normal current flowing.
The ONLY safe way to use a generator is to either plug the desired item directly into the genset, or have a proper transfer panel, a switch which will COMPLETELY isolate the generator and all the load to be transferred to it from the incoming utility lines.
Best of luck.
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PTO Generators Observations
I am aware and agree with all your posts. Safety is of great importance, unfortunatly it is the first thing most people are willing to compromise on. Just look at the speed limit and the speed poeple actually drive. Even hooking the generator directly to the main lugs is having a double male cord, male at one end bare wires at the other. Putting your self at risk is one thing, putting others at risk is where the line needs to be drawn. Certainly a person should have a good grasp of what they are doing and the risks involved to remain safe. You know what they say "Common sense isn't"
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PTO Generators Observations
As a eletrical contractor I Have to say Never back feed a house, it can kill. The transformer out on the street works both ways if it reduces the voltage for your house it can increase the voltage from you generator. Now there are a lot of good tranfer switches out there for all sizes of generators. they will disconnect the two hot leads for the circuits you want on the generator. I have never seen a disconect that also disconnects the neutral or ground wires. Here is agood link for small generator transfers.
Link:
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PTO Generators Observations
Steve4300, you are right about the transfer switches being 2 pole, so the grounds are always still connected to the utility wires. Mine is a midwest installed by a licensed electrician and inspected and to code. So if these are ever a problem, it is really a code problem. Before you think Murf is a dummy or just likes to type, remember he is from Canada and it may be different there, as many things are. Heck they even had the flu shot and we couldn't get any. As far as overloading one side of the generator? Doesn't every single person who hooks a 220 generator to a breaker panel, in any manner, that also uses 120 circuits, pose a slight risk of that? When you energize a breaker box with 220, you energize both poles which alternate breakers as you go down each column. If by chance it happens that every other 120 breaker is used at the same time, it could load one side. Other than proper planning of breaker placement, is there any other way to reduce this slim possibility?
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denwood , I do believe electrical codes are stricter in Canada. As far as balancing the loads on a generator, most electricians use a clamp -on amp meter and try to figure out what each load is drawing.
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PTO Generators Observations
You are both correct, the electrical safety reg.'s in Canada are amongst the strictest in the world.
Here we must have a transfer switch which a) breaks the neutral bond between the generator supply and the utility's supply lines, and b) it must be of a "break-before-make" design, in other words it must open all 3 circuits from the utility's lines BEFORE it can connect to the generator. They also MUST be capable of transferring their full rated capacity UNDER LOAD.
The ground wire is a moot point since one conductor cannot form a circuit, especially when it's grounded anyway.
Most transfer switches here are also equipped with a neutral bond break delay to ensure there is no out of phase issues created by the transfer switch.
IMHO, a 2 pole transfer switch is just a big poke waiting to happen to someone, likely an unsuspecting linesman.
Best of luck.
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