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9 11
As to what any county thinks of the USA, it may not be necessary they like us but it sure is they respect us. That can be for more than one reason or it can only be for one. Sadly there are those who don't understand or don't care, I have no idea which. Don't think the Soviet Union ever liked us, but think they did respected us.
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9 11
Watch the Ted koppel special on security on the I think history channel. There are a lot of different views from all sides. What I got out of it is trading american lives civilian and military for the rights of muslem prisoners.
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9 11
Denis (really I am writting this with no disrespect)
Whew! where do I begin with people who have stopped listening to logic and reasoning and intead choose to just hate?
The UNPOPULAR WAR? Funny! as I remember it, The President had the MAJORITY of the House and the Senate back him as well as the U.S. Population and many world countries. Everyone had the SAME Intel and the INTEL was as good as possibly could be, considering no one had effective Operatives in the Middle East. 9 / 11 woke alot of people up, but the problem seems to be too many rolled over and went back to sleep.
Did you read who Germany just released from Prison a few days ago and who rejoined the terrorists?
Do you believe in the FOOD FOR OIL scandal? Have you read about the FOOD FOR OIL and how SADDAM was benefiting and the terrorists were building strentgh? What countries were involved and were these the SAME countries who chose NOT to support us as we tried to get the U.N. off of their asses to enforce any ONE of the 17 resolutions they had issued against Saddam?
Was the Weapon Inspectors not lead around by rings in their noses prior to being thrown out?
Was Saddam and Qusay and Quday Not responsible for hundreds of thousands if not millions of executions, murders and rapes of the very people who relied on thir LEADERSHIP?
Did Bill Clinton not fire dozens of Cruise Missles into Iraq to rob attention from his hearings?
Was Saddam not building a SUPER GUN?
We have found WMDs and We have found Chemical Agents, over 500 to be exact and we have proved links to the Al Qeada and even the Taliban why do people refuse to accept their exsistance and links?
Where would we stage a Mideast War from Denis? the U.S.? We knew Iraq was a troubled area and it was a stragetic area as well and not for frigging OIL but for location to set up an Offensive against the Al Queada and the Taliban and any and ALL terrorists from the Middle East. We did not have to seek AIR SPACE permission from Turkey or whoever, we do not need to refuel several times per mission and we have SAFE AREAS in Kuwait and Saudi to train, supply and disperse our military forces. We have the Liberals back here who don't understand horseshit from dogshit and keep on running their blind mouths and accusing the U.S. of Astrocities and all other forms of their hateful, unloyal cries.
YES! I am loyal to command and I chose to be loyal to command for what I am as a citizen, I am not an ignorant Kimakazee who drinks Saki and climbs in, I read, I watch, I listen, I participate and I reason out truth from bashing and when I hear stupid Liberals cry teir hate and discontent I want to buy them bus tickets and send them to Mexico with the other Illegals.
You have NO CLUE why President Bush chose NOT to use his so-called Full Authority (which by the way, he does NOT have) unless you have been getting deeply involved and have the contacts he has, you can only assume through CNN and other sound bytes. You can gather a ton of sound bytes and have a small cargo load but still a far cry from what the Experts gather in a single day. President Bush did what that pissed you off? What did President Bush do and be sure it wasn't Congress or the Senate but what exactly has President Bush done that pissed you off so much? Could you be precise in explaining what he did ALONE and without support or persuassion from the House and Senate? What did President BUSH do, all by himself that has Denis and so many others pissed off? Now please do not include lied about Iraq that is as old as the bones at Boot Hill and as phoney as Michael Moore and Dan Rather and the Clintons. There were NO LIES,ZERO Point shit, Hind sight will always make things appear differently but we can NOT look back at ourselves NOW until we venture further into the future. Lies show intent and Bush had no intent, end of that discussion. WMDs then/ Well Saddam and his sons were three wopping WMDs, unless you have a picture of what kind of WMD you are searching for, we found many Artillery Shells loaded with Sarin and just recently we found more andmore WMDs, so when a Democrat was asked about te recently found WMDs and now there is proof they exsisted, the reply was ' that doesn't matter he lied' so it seems it is an always shifting reason why the Left hates President Bush. 
The people are on a need to know basis and they have no need to know the full extent of any National Security info, it is not the kind of info the press should be publishing as did the liberal rag the New York Times. Great service to their country that ole New York Times, how many lives have they cost, and DIRECTLY? Far more than President Bush, for now the terrorists we may have caught will continue to train others and kill dozens at a time. But nooooo we don't want to even think that yesterdays car bombing or the day befores could even be remotely linked to the New York Times we would rather just link it to Bush. If you don't want to link to the NYT then how about France, Germany and Russia and their participation in Food for Oil, where the embargos that we had in place to serve a purpose of flushing out the evil instead was being fed with billions and billions of corrupt Food for Oil money right up to the U.N.? How many lives and what barriers did that put into place? You think this is just about Bush and our love for oil? Damn....
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9 11
Us: Afraid to die
Them: Looking forward to martyrdom
Us: Lots to loose (Lives equipment money votes)
Them: Nothing to loose (Extremely poor limited equipment no democracy)
Us: Squabbling over the war every which way - stay in, get out, no direction, political positioning
Them: Death to America
How do you win a war like this?
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9 11
Ann
Through Determination, Education and offering Oppurtunities and a Future. all of which we are doing. Some of what we have accomplished http://www.defendamerica.mil/iraq/rebuilding.html
The children of Iraq are born innocent and what they become when they are Young Adults is from influence. Fear from a bad regime has been the influence for 30 years. Fear to be executed, raped or murdered for fun has kept the people summissive. We are changing that, we are offering Hope where there was none, we are offering Choice where they had none and we are offering Freedom which they never felt. Just because I was born American does NOT mean I am the only Nationality entitled to a decent life. I support helping anyone who is in need and the people of the middle east are definetely in need. If you do not share these views, no one has called upon you, if you do share these views, then I am sure you are doing a part to make the world a better place, but sitting on ones hands and admitting to a defeat before a battle is even fought, sorry, not my cup of tea.
LEAD, FOLLOW OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY
Evil spreads quickly and without concern for borders if left unchecked, but do you know what? so doesn't Goodness.
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9 11
Ann, while your comment is certainly thoughtful, it is, IMHO, also very misleading.
The average Joe, Ahmed?, over there is NOT a zealous mis-guided fanatic, who is bent on destroying America even though the Quaran says he can't or he won't go to heaven.
They are hard-working, family-oriented people who want nothing more than a happy, peaceful existance.
It is the few nutbars who you see on CNN that you are referring to, NOT the majority by any means.
I was speaking with a friend who is an Middle East expert with the CIA, he says the demonstartions you see on TV in most of that area, as well as those you see in Asia, and used to see in Russia, are the result of one thing, and one thing only, the organizers PAY people to come out and demonstrate. That and in most cases the people are too afraid to say "No" to them for fear of retribution.
I saw this first hand in Grenada years ago. The people were demonstrating against our "invasion" one day, and thronging their "liberators" the next....
As a buddy from Texas says, "After you cut off the ratler's head, the rest tastes pretty good."
Best of luck.
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9 11
I was not refering to the "average joe" Iraqi (sp?), i'm refering to those we actually are trying to engage. Problem is we are fighting it in someone elses yard, eventually that someone tires of your presence and you end up with more enemies than you started with. My observations are that when the plan and path is clear ahead everyone is in agreement - no problem. The bickering starts when the plan falls apart and there is no clear contingency (as evidenced by all the bickering). Looks to me like we are stuck for now - can't win, can't pull out. Not proposing any solutions here - not bashing anyone - bloody glad I am not a politician - not as proud an American as I used to be - we underestimated this one.
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9 11
Ann
With all due respect and no disrespect intended.
WIN? what would define a WIN in Iraq? It is not a war as you may be accustomed to for comparisions. It is a war on terrorists and for the Iraqi people to have a life where they are able to make their own choices. A Win in Iraq is Not going to be measured in body counts, nor is it going to be measured in ground taken. It has already been won in so many ways. The people of Iraq stood in lines to Vote as they were being car bombed and that tells me, they want the choices being offered to them. The Win will be measured when people are free to walk their own streets and have a job of choice and be able to come home, to a home with a paycheck. It is happening more and more each and every day.
As good Americans we do not need to be back here creating more obstacles and casting doubt for the men and women who are doing the job of getting it done.
Yes! we are fighting in someone else's yard and thank God to that. We need to understand why we are fighting there and I think I explained it above. The MidEast is a Hot Zone and we had no real presence there, no deterrent for Evil to develope and grow. What we have with Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi is Bases, a presence, a means to deploy to other Hot Spots and exterminate the problems. This war is cheaper than trying to wage from a Base in Germany or from who knows where else. We are being seen and after awhile they will come to realize, we mean business and we are staying for as long as it takes. If they sense they can win the war by wining over the home people of the U.S. then we will have a longer and more costly war ahead. Fact! we are there until mission accomplished. Fact, we can do it easier and less cosntly with United Support or we can pay more in lives and in money for as long as the enemy sees a weakness in our support. Fact, we aren't leaving until we are done. Sorry, too much at stake and the squeaky wheel will NOT get any grease this time around, all that wheel will create is problems for the others.
I have seen a clearly defined mission, I do not feel in the least bit that I have been lied to and I fully 100% support our troops and their mission.
Women in the middle east are treated like property and have of little value, I have three daughters and I think how many wonderful women there are in the middle east like my daughters, that could turn out like my daughters, if given just one thing.....OPPURTUNITY. To read how they need to keep themselves covered, they are traded for Cows, when a husband grows tired of his wife, he merely pours gasoline on her and sets her afire. He may kill a daughter with no risk of punishment. He may disfigure a wife or daughter with no penalty. Sorry, Ann, I love my daughters and I know there are millions of girls just like them that would be happy with a chance to live life as a woman and not as a piece of property of some sicko. Is it my business? YES! I think it is, I share the same planet and as long as I am able to help, I want to help. For those who choose not to get involved, fine,
LEAD, FOLLOW OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY
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9 11
"As good Americans we do not need to be back here creating more obstacles and casting doubt for the men and women who are doing the job of getting it done."
So just shut up and say nothing? Statements like these smack of an authoritarian high-handed and autocratic approach, the complete opposite of what we are supposed to stand for. Unfortunately they don't just appear in web discussion groups they are also used by our leaders. We do ourselves a great disservice when we advocate the silencing of those that dissent. It's also truely "unamerican" although there is plenty of shameful historical evidence that it happens.
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9 11
WW,
I used "unpopular war" in quotes. I meant it sarcastically. There should be a symbol of some sort on my keyboard for sarcasm. I meant to say that Bush needs to grow a pair and fight this war like a man not a sissy that he is. You ask me why I hate Bush? I resent him because he portrays himself like a tough guy but when it comes to making tough decisions, he folds. He shows his weakness and the animals we're dealing with only understand strength. The ONLY way to earn the respect of these animals is punish them with all brutality that we're capable off. Bush is undermining our security by not authorizing the measures that need to be taken to eliminate the islamophascist threat. If he was a Dem, I couldn't care because that's the low-life slime they are, but he is supposedly a conservative and I have no other option in general elections but to vote republican and that's why I'm mad.
Can you defend the following actions by the Bush administration:
1) jailing and procecution of our military for alleged mistreatment of terrorists
2) failure to abliterate terrorists havens like Faluja, Bacuba and Naj when these were presented as such
3) failure to eliminate al-Sadr when he challenged the US authority in Iraq
4) failure to catch Bin Laden and employ all means necessary to do so (even including the invasion of Pakistan)
5) failure to close the borders
Don't explain these failures away - they are simply shows of weakness under political pressure. Neither of these could have been stopped by ACLU, so let's stop blaming the libs. The only lib we have to worry about is the one in the white house.
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09-12-2006, 17:13 
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