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Buying that Perfect Small Farm
But Stephen,
by saying "never say never" you've rebuked your own council. Seriously though, Australia's history and character in regard to firearms is very different from that of the US. The American constitution is a wonderful document, enshrining and spelling out with spine tingling words and poetic oratory individual rights and freedoms whereas ours is a bland legal text more akin to a private club than anything else. This is the simplest illustration I can use to help explain the different way we respectivley see our governments.
It's a big area for discussion the US and Australia are great allies and always will be but be asured most Australian's don't believe "our guns weren't taken from us" but rather "excess guns were taken out of the system - by us, for our own protection".
Gun reduction in Australia has helped make us one of the safest most peaceful places on earth.
cheers, Bruce
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Buying that Perfect Small Farm
Strangely enough with the recent D-Day rememberance ceremonies fresh in our minds comes this story, emailed to me by relatives in South Africa.
"HARARE, ZIMBABWE - Zimbabwe will nationalize all farmland and abolish private land ownership, the country's land reforms minister said on Tuesday. John Nkomo said all land will become the property of the state and property deeds will be replaced with state-issued 99-year leases. "There shall be no such thing as private land," Nkomo said.
Under President Robert Mugabe's controversial land reform measures that began in 2000, almost 5,000 white-owned farms have been handed over to landless blacks. Mugabe had argued the seizures were necessary to resettle blacks kicked off their land during British colonization. "Ultimately all land shall be resettled as state property," said Nkomo.
Critics say much of the best farmland is not being used because the resettled farmers are too poor to afford equipment, supplies and seed. Production of two of the country's biggest money earners – food and tobacco – has dropped dramatically.
Humanitarian groups have warned that the country is facing a food shortage. The United Nations estimates Zimbabwe will produce less than half the food it needs for this year and has little money or resources with which to buy or trade for food on the world market. The European Union has responded to Mugabe's behaviour by imposing sanctions on his government, withdrawing all observers and restricting government representatives from travelling within member states. But that only served to underscore Zimbabwe's status as a pariah nation, abandoned and black-listed by the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund because of Mugabe's policies.
The 78-year-old Mugabe has been widely criticized by the British government and press freedom advocates as a dictatorial autocrat who holds power through bribery, corruption and intimidation. Critics accuse him of hiring unemployed teens to harass people into voting for him in a door-to-door campaign of terror. These same teens are accused of beating supposed MDC supporters to death in public.
Zimbabwe is facing an unemployment rate estimated at 60 per cent with a soaring inflation rate of 116 per cent while the average Zimbabwean income has been cut in half since independence. Starvation is threatening more than half a million people in rural areas and an educated urban elite is said be getting bribed, threatened or killed by vigilante electioneering attributed to Mugabe."
It seems the concepts of freedom and civil liberties hold little value for some people.
The strange part about all of this is it's only been 20 years since Zimbabwe declared it's independance after a bloody civil war "to escape the tirany and opression of British rule".
Yeah, right.
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Buying that Perfect Small Farm
I recently bought a 40 acre property with stone house, barn and outbuildings about 8 miles from where I grew up in Northwestern Wisconsin. Raw undeveloped land around the Ladysmith area 3 hours from Minneapolis/St. Paul goes for $1K per acre.
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Buying that Perfect Small Farm
Murf, glad to hear your wife is a Capetonian, I am led to beleive that there are a quite few South Africans in Canada, not to mention the large depot of "when we's" that have sought refuge there as well. I went to school in the Cape (near Port Elizabeth). FWIW, I was born and raised in Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia) and then lived in Namibia for a few before moving to the great hulking African metropolis of Johannesburg. Unfortunately the Zim stories you hear usually have some truth in them.
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Buying that Perfect Small Farm
WOW!!!! A VERY interesting and wide ranging thread. Murf, I never realized you had ties to Z land and South Africa. I have some VERY strong, heart felt, and idealistic feelings and thoughts about this issue. I will just leave it at "don't get me started!" ;O)
I am probably one of our nation's strongest proponents for private property rights. Although the USA is probably the strongest private property rights oriented place in the world; it has drifted FAR from its roots in the Declaration of independence, Preamble to the Unitied States Constitution, and the United States Constitution its self to say the LEAST.
I make the FEABLE attempt to exercise ownership over more than a "few acres" of land. I have come to find out the reality that although the deeds to this land are in mine and my family's name and we pay the property taxes along with the responsibilities of ownership.................... we do not in fact in the final analysis actually own the land. The state and county by levying a property tax has forced forced upon us literally at gun point to our heads a partner ownership of this land. Don't believe me.................... just try refusing to pay your property taxes and watch how fast an an armed team of law enforcement folks come out to your home and post documents seizing ownership from you. Or if you inherit land from a parent; watch how fast "Big Brother" gets to the front of the line with his hand out to force you to pay the inheritance tax with the gun held to your head with the other hand. Don't have the money to pay the upto 45% tax?????? No problem......."Big Brother" will gladly send out the JBT's to seize your family land at gun point and auction it off for you, steal what they want and leave you the remainder if there is any left. Once the land goes up for auction, it is no longer just inheritance tax.......now you may incur capital gains taxes, closing costs, lawyer fees, etc. etc.
I love living on such a large piece of land but I find that I am forced literally to constantly keep an eye and patrol it to keep poachers, trespassers, pot growers, methamphetamine manufacturers, ATV riders, and others off of my land. My fences, fence posts, and gates have been damaged and stolen. I have caught red handed local folks stealing creek gravel with dual axle commercial dump trucks and back hoes. Local law enforcement is TOTALLY useless in this respect and I must do it myself. I will just say that I am armed as well or better armed than the folks who used to "own" the farms in Rodesia and South Africa. During hunting season I wear body armor out of fear of being shot while walking and posting my property lines. Not whinning......... just making known the actual REAL costs of ownership of land.
I love the land as well as have a GREAT respect for it, the area, and enjoy the relationships I have with my neighbors, and I walked into to this understanding the responsibilities of owning land in this country. It is not what most folks think it is at first glance and you should take this into consideration before buying land in this manor.
Getting back to the original theme of the thread; there IS still land out there to be had for reasonable prices but you have to look for it and make sacrifices with respect to employment, location, and understanding, adapting to, as well as blending in with the local culture not to mention wading through the legal issues of gaining deed and title to distressed property. This can be a very enjoyable thing or a very aggrivating. It all depends upon how you approach it and the seriousness upon which you view and wish to exercise private property ownership. Just realize that there are rights and responsibilites that come with land ownership that are not always readily apparent.
I also wanted to say in closing this lengthy post that I SORELY miss TomG's and Peter's posts and if you are out there Tom & Peters and read this; I sure hope you will drop in and post from time to time and post a word or two. Maybe you have and I just missed it. Sure hope you are doing well.
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Buying that Perfect Small Farm
Ann, Goeiemôre!, it is a small world after all, isn't it? I lived in Jo'burg (Sandton actually) for a little while too. Yes, there are a great number of Afrikaaners here in Canada, especially in Toronto. Also a good number in Vancouver because of the similar climate. Thankfully I can even buy S. African groceries, including killer Bo'vo (Boervorst).
My wife & I are contemplating me retiring early and taking it easier, the cape area is one of the places on the 'short' list.
Randy, I agree whole-heartedly with your sentiments. Unfortunately as life gets 'easier' it is because of all the things the Government does for us. These things must be paid for. We use the county extension agents, we drive on paved roads that are line painted, cleared of snow, etc, and all this costs money.
However, if everybody MERELY (he says tongue in cheek) respected their fellow person, a lot of life's misery and problems would dissappear. When that fails to happen we have recourse to stronger means. I have, and would again, take up arms in defence of others life and liberty.
I also agree with the "don't get me started...." idea,  .
Best of luck.
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Buying that Perfect Small Farm
Morning Murf! Hope you had a great weekend.
Don't get me wrong. I am not against paying taxes as you are indeed right; "some" of the services the government provides are sorely needed and are costly. My issue is that the taxation our government resorts to is CLEARLY in gross violation and disreguard for our Constitution. I pay for my useage of the road at the diesel fuel pump and when I register my vehicles. I pay for other services when I pay sales tax at various stores. Sales, use, and registration (with the exception of gun registration) taxes are legal forms of taxation. The others are not. I am all for paying my way but not for being robbed at gun point.
As is the way with nearly all things in life; the sweet comes with a bit of sour now and again. I still couldn't think of a better place to live on this big blue marble.
In closing; it seems that lately the government does MUCH MORE to us than for us in my opinion. ;o)
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Buying that Perfect Small Farm
I agree with Randy that property taxes are a form of enslavement. The government is laying claim to the fruits of ones labor just because they can. Things have to be paid for, though, so it seems use taxes are fair.
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Buying that Perfect Small Farm
Randy, the weekend was tough to take, a buddy bought a new 390 Sundancer and we had to christen it suitably. Sunshine and the temp's in the high 80's make boating pretty unbearable, luckily we had an assortment of cool beverages to keep the ladies from complaining, too loudly.
I may have to get another boat now, .
Anyways, I'm with you two there, things have to be paid for, but I too object to the gross 'overpayment', let alone the things they want me to pay for.
The have a kind of nifty tax system in the Bahamas, it's a little more reasonable for the average person.
Property taxes don't kick in until the assessed value exceeds $250,000 (a decent working class home is under that, but not by much, and they are talking of bumping it to $300k now) after that you pay a small percentage of the value.
Income & Corporate taxes are also non-existant.
They do have a fairly high VAT type (sales) tax, and a big import duty, up to 70% depending on what it is. By & large though the tourists pay the majority of the Government's income.
Best of luck.
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Buying that Perfect Small Farm
I sold the Sea Ray and paid off the John Deere. I kept the Boston Whaler which is a MUCH more managable size and easier to maintain.
390 Dancer sounds sweet! I like Tiara's too. They seem to have a bit more space in the maintenance areas and make a bit better blue water boat. ALL way out of my price range! ;O)
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04-01-2004, 22:46 
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