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A thought-provoking eye-opener
Joel, with all due respect, your depiction of the Swiss as "one of the few nations that didn't need to be rescued from Hitler's Third Reich." is misleading at best.
Of course they didn't need to be rescued, they were the Nazis business partners and hosted all of their foreign banking and provided all the "holding" companies that the Nazis used to launder their stolen loot, including gold and art.
Do a little research on the subject, the results don't reveal a very idyllic picture.
According to a report by the Allied economic intelligence group entitled "Allied Claims Against Swiss for Return of Looted Gold" (dated February 5, 1946) provides the best estimate of gold looted from the central banks of Europe. The report shows a total of $648 million in Nazi gold.
At the outbreak of the war, the best estimate of the Nazi gold reserves was $100 million.
The difference of $548 million was looted from the countries of Europe that the Nazis occupied.
The report estimates from bank records that between $275 million and $282 million was sold to the SWISS NATIONAL BANK. The Government itself was doing this!
The report concludes that much of the gold, after being laundered by the Swiss, ended up in Portugal and Spain in accounts held by Swiss-based holding companies, fronts for the Nazis themselves.
On top of that, the British looked at and inventoried the stolen artwork from across occupied Europe, and stored in Swiss banks, they estimated the value of 53 paintings they found in one bank alone at $484,000 (1940's dollars). The report determined the total value of all the looted paintings at $390 to $545 million.
In 1941, in an effort to stop the Swiss from acting as the Nazis' bankers and front men the US froze all Swiss assets in the United States, and asked all the Allies to do likewise. In response the Swiss cut off the coal supply to the US embassy in the winter of 1941. The German embassy still received its coal allotment.
Now bear in mind, the Swiss also provided the Nazis with many manufactured goods that took much skill to make, such as machine tools, it supplied other items including railway locomotives and even arms and ammunition. Two key Swiss exports to the Nazis were electric power and aluminum.
Even in the very late days of the war, Switzerland was still helping the Nazis, in March 1945 the Swiss signed an agreement with the US that said the Swiss would freeze all German assets in Switzerland, prohibit the importation, exportation, and dealing in all foreign currencies, and to restrict Swiss purchases of gold from Germany. However, In May 1945, the U.S. Legation in Bern reported the Swiss had bought 3,000 kilograms of gold from Germany. The agreement clearly prohibited the purchase.
The Swiss merely stated that the gold was not looted gold.
In March 1946, formal talks with Switzerland, the US, Britain, and France started in Washington. Switzerland asserted that the Allies claim to German assets beyond Germany’s border was illegal and a violation of Switzerland's sovereignty. In return, the US insisted that Swiss funds remain frozen in the United States until the Swiss provided ironclad guarantees that they would identify and seize all accounts under German control.
The estimated total of German assets in Switzerland, EXCLUDING numbered accounts and cloaked assets to be $500 million, this was based on two comprehensive evaluations of German gold movements during the War, both were in the form of reports which had been prepared from the records of the Reichsbank found after Germany fell. The reports also concluded the Swiss took a total profit of some $289 million for laundering Nazi money.
In the end the Swiss made a deal with the Allies, they would liquidate all Nazi assets in Switzerland on the basis that all liquidated assets would be divided on a 50-50 split between Switzerland and the Allies!!
In 1997 a former Swiss bank guard Christoph Meili came forward with evidence that Union Bank of Switzerland was shredding documents concerning Union’s activities with the Nazis. Meili, a nighttime guard at Union Bank discovered a large quantity of documents waiting to be shredded. Among the documents were records of accounts from the war years. The young guard took two books and pages ripped from another to his locker that night, and then home. Meili then turned the books over to a Jewish organization in Switzerland. Swiss law forbids destroying documents that might relate to WWII investigations. For a reward in his efforts to uncover the truth, Union Bank fired Mr. Meili. The government also is investigating whether Meili violated any of the Swiss secrecy laws. The young man was subjected to threats of kidnapping of his daughters and has since moved to the United States. Even in the United States, Meili still receives death threats.
President Clinton signed a bill that granted the Meili family permanent resident status. Christoph Meili has the distinction of being the only Swiss citizen ever granted political asylum in the US.
Does this sound like a great peaceful nation to you?
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A thought-provoking eye-opener
Murf,
War can be very profitable to those who don't partake in the hostilities.
At the outbreak of WWI, the U.S. was raking in some very impressive cash. All of the countries involved in the war were looking for the supplies needed to carry out their military operations. The U.S., being one of the few countries who remained neutral, was selling supplies to every other nation.....and we were making a killing at it.
When two or more nations go to war, the demand for products skyrockets. Nothing consumes more material in a short amount of time, than war. Those nations which decide to avoid the hostilities can make a fortune from those who spend the money necessary to take part in the fight.
Switzerland's actions are frowned upon by many. However, our Founders thought the U.S. could get rich by providing goods to those countries who took part in the wars. Financing Napoleon's war against the world resulted in some pretty spectacular bargains, and profits for us, here in the U.S.
When the U.S. finally entered WWI, all of our foreign business dealings came to an end. Soon thereafter, the U.S. went broke.
Joel
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A thought-provoking eye-opener
Joel, I'm not talking about making a profit selling goods to another country, I'm talking about being duplicitous in the THEFT and subsequent LAUNDERING of vast sums of money.
The money of the VICTIMS of the war.
In the early years the Swiss banks took incredible amounts of money in on deposit from wealthy Jewish families concerned about the way things were going politically.
Later the Swiss passed several laws, one which said a non-citizen could only withdraw money in person, and another which forbid entry to anyone who's passport started with the letter "J". The Nazis had forced all the puppet governments in occupied countries to add the prefix "J" to passports of known Jews. This amounted to the confiscation of an innocent persons assets for no reason other than race.
That is NOT neutrality.
There is a vast difference between legitimate business and criminal activity.
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A thought-provoking eye-opener
Murf,
You are right on with your very informed and accurate depiction of the massive Swiss banking fraud on the Jews. Thank you for providing all of the information and saving me the time!
I am a banker and have researched this issues as well and you are spot on. As I said earlier, it just depends on one's perspective. Most people believe what they want to believe.
Joel, it is not just "a bunch of government propaganda"...it's the facts. But I have a feeling you believe what you want to and whatever facts Murf or anyone else puts forth will not change your opinion....and that's OK, you are entitled to your opinion and that's one of the things that makes our Country great...free speech.
No question that the U.S. has made many mistakes and some of them even tragic, but so has every other government....even the Swiss.
Brian
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A thought-provoking eye-opener
I think George Bush is responsible for what the Swiss did to the Jews.
The only reason he hasn't repeated this kind of thing again is because he is too busy these days making hurricanes and blowing up bridges and tall buildings.
Give him enough time and he will get back to the banking and racial abuses.
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A thought-provoking eye-opener
Mark,
Another classy, funny post.
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A thought-provoking eye-opener
Forgive me for revisiting this thread but there is a question I want to leave here:
"...The U.S. was on the march across the Pacific. First it was Hawaii, then the Philippines. We were getting closer to Japan with each passing day. The Japanese didn't have time to wait. Since we had already taken Hawaii by force, and in the process of subduing the people of the Philippines, the people of Japan were quite certain they already knew where we were headed next..."
If this was true, then why do those lands not fly the Stars and Strips today? For at the end of the war, we had them if we had wanted them. There may have been some concern by Russia but very little as they would have been very please for us to traded our protecting (part of) Germany for those islands. kt
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A thought-provoking eye-opener
KThompson,
As they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
We do own Japan. It's ours. We own most of Europe, as well.
You may not believe this, but we also own Taiwan.
Our ownership doesn't come in the normal fashion. We don't fly our flag above their schools, banks, and government office buildings. Instead, we control their banks, their commerce, and their trade policies. In essence, those nations belong to us, in all but deed.
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 of the U.S. Constitution makes it illegal for the U.S. to expand its territory. The Louisiana Purchase was unconstitutional, and Jefferson clearly admitted it. He was forgiven, of course, but this didn't make it any more legal.
The Japanese signed an agreement with China, making Taiwan a part of Japanese territory. When we defeated Japan, in 1945, Taiwan fell into our hands......just as Cuba and the Philippines fell into our hands, after we defeated Spain, in the Spanish American War.
The Chinese want Taiwan back.......and they've clearly stated their intentions. The U.S. is prepared to meet any Chinese force, with force of our own....because we own it, and we won't allow it to be taken from us.
In truth, we own much of the world's land mass, though our congressmen have carefully hidden the land deeds from the American voters. What we don't know won't hurt us.
When our government idiots send American boys overseas to....as they so carefully phrase it..... "put an end to the human rights violations"....... what they really mean is, "We're sending in the Marines to protect our property rights!"
Here's a quote from Thomas Jefferson............
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"[The Louisiana Purchase was] laid before both Houses [of Congress], because both [had] important functions to exercise respecting it. They... [saw] their duty to their country in ratifying and paying for it so as to secure a good which would otherwise probably be never again in their power. The Constitution has made no provision for our holding foreign territory, still less for incorporating foreign nations into our Union. The Executive, in seizing the fugitive occurrence which so much advances the good of their country, have done an act beyond the Constitution. The Legislature in casting behind them metaphysical subtleties and risking themselves like faithful servants, must ratify and pay for it and throw themselves on their country for doing for them unauthorized what we know they would have done for themselves had they been in a situation to do it. It is the case of a guardian investing the money of his ward in purchasing an important adjacent territory and saying to him when of age, I did this for your good; I pretend to no right to bind you. You may disavow me, and I must get out of the scrape as I can. I thought it my duty to risk myself for you. But we [were] not disavowed by the nation, and their act of indemnity [confirmed] and [did] not weaken the Constitution by more strongly marking out its lines." --Thomas Jefferson to John Breckenridge, 1803. (*) ME 10:410
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Some might wonder how it came to be that the U.S. has a military base at Cuba. Guantanamo Bay Naval Base was acquired after we defeated Spain. We just kept enough of Cuba to make our presence known.
However, any such acquisition of foreign territory is specifically prohibited by Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 of the U.S. Constitution. It isn't legal for the U.S. to acquire foreign lands, either by cash, or by force.
More to come if you're interested. I truly enjoy the discussion.......crazy as I may seem to some people here.
Trying to undo 150 years of false history, written and distributed by our government, is no easy chore.......but I'm up to the task.
Joel
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A thought-provoking eye-opener
Kt,
We were not going to give up our foot hole in Germany, we had wanted one for many years. After WWII we now had a very strong presence close to Russia on both fronts. Why own the wagon and horse when you can control the reins and guide the whole business. With all of our problems and shortcommings America is the best thing going. I see know anywhere out there that I would rather live. In other countries (for the most part) working class people are just tools in the bag to be employed and discarded. SG.
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A thought-provoking eye-opener
Joel, with all due respect, I think your reading of legalese needs a bit of work.
As far as I can see the passage you are referring to is;
Clause 17:
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;
Which does not "makes it illegal for the U.S. to expand its territory." It makes it illegal to do it at the point of a gun. There is a difference.
Notice the explicit wording "all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be". In other words, if the Legislature of Country XYZ votes to sell it's lands to the US, that IS a legal act under the US constitution. What it does is make it illegal for the US Government to take any land by any means EXCEPT the above process.
IF you want to go one step further still, the clause specifically speaks of some of the reasons why the US would want foreign lands. This can be found in the final verse of Clause 17 "for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;".
So there you have it. Foreign lands can be purchased quite legally under the Constitution, in fact whole blocks of land such as the Louisiana Territory and Alaska where bought quite legally.
BTW, if you take Jefferson's words in the proper context, he was apologizing for spending money that wasn't his, but the nations, in fact future generations even. He even says so. "[The Louisiana Purchase was] laid before both Houses [of Congress], because both [had] important functions to exercise respecting it. They... [saw] their duty to their country in RATIFYING and PAYING for it......". Notice the word "ratify", it means to confirm, or make something valid. Jefferson would not have been so careless in syntax or law as to think that a vote of the houses could make right an illegal act.
Best of luck.
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08-03-2007, 10:19 
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