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Limiting Eminent Domain
Peters
you said "WW - Obviously you are on the Bush political band wagon. That is acceptable, but lets get history straight. The idea that George HW or George H were self made is completely wrong. If you can see the silver spoons you must be blind."
I said "
They made their money from the ground up, not like the Kennedys who got their money from the Mob. What is a regular guy to you?"
I was referring to the family and not the Individual. Slow down when you read Peters....smile. They did not earn money as in Royalty or as in Kings and Queens. They did not get involved with the Mob, Mafia, or Drug Running. They made their wealth 100% legally and 100% in a way that any of you can make it in.
You seem to have a itch for successful people and yet we are sitting here typing on computers that a man worth tens of Billions is making money from.
I raise my own food, I hunt for it, I fish for it, I have a Large Garden, I have a $700 car, yes! a $700 car. I heat with Wood and Coal and I am happy on my 10.5 acres and I have NO hatred towards any man who took a risk and made good of it. I do NOT feel I am owed moeny from the Gates or the Rockerfellas or the Kennedy's, well maybe the Kennedy's It use to drink IMported Scotch. I do feel I am owed by those who make their money by prying off of the innocent and the use people as victims. The Bushes made their money from the ground up, they didn't win the Mega Bucks or what have you. So my History is just fine Peters. Thanks.
Bush Band Wagon? No! I don't think so, but the Shit slinging is getting Old and everyone is an expert at Hating the OTHER Party. I am tired of the Micaheal Moores and the Dan Rathers and the John Kerry's and the Howard Deans and others who feel they are entitled to sling shit and not have to prove their own positions. No one is perfect and everyone has a basket full of blunders. But you know what? Soon because of the way we bash our Politicians the devision from the people will grow, just like it has with the Police and then sooner or later, no one wil want to have the job for its rightful reasons but rather for its POWER. We are quick to judge and slow to gain the proper info first.
You all can HAte Bush, that is your choice, but smears and B.S. to slam the President is B.S. in itself. No one here understands the whole picture of FREE TRADE and no one wa shere for the Senate or the Congressional Debates. No one here has the survey cheets or the research findings or the teams of Experts, they only have the Sound Bytes, the News stories, the Gossip, the Opinions of opinated people. We are not the EXPERTS. I fully agree we need to TRUST and yet VERIFY but there are far better tactful ways of doing it. I am have seen plenty of Military Experts who dictate how to fight battles and yet have never worn a uniform or been to any type of War College.
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Limiting Eminent Domain
WW,
I'm sure no economist, but I'll tell you this: the way you keep the dollar strong is you make products that can be bought with that dollar - what in the nookies are we making now a days except for rap videos? We should have maintained a strong manufacturing base, but we've lost it thanks to the globalists. This country grew most prosperous when trade tariffs protected domestic production between late 18th century and early 20th. Thats a FACT. Globalists like to threaten people with a Depression if protectionist policies are implemented. BS!!! We had the great depression because of an overheated market of the 20's, not because of protection tariffs.
The thing is, the original tariffs were instituted because US businesses wanted them, now the US businesses find it cheaper to produce oversees and the tariffs are gone. But it is the NATION as a whole that suffers when corporations off-shore production. When a man looses his well paying job and the pride that comes with it, it not only effect him but his family and his community. When millions of Americans loose meaningful jobs and are forced to take menial positions in the service industry, that has a degenerative impact on the morale of the entire Nation. We become a nation of loosers instead of a Nation of builders. And for what? So that a quarterly report can beat the forecast by a couple of pennies? Avarice has been the downfall of men and globalism is the ultimate, total and most corrupt expression of greed. Do you know where the number 666 in the relevations comes from? Read 1 Kings 10:13-15 in the scripture and you'll see what is the true nature of the antichrist.
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Limiting Eminent Domain
Denis
You have a GREAT Descussion going here, Thanks.
Tariffs can not Protect the American Worker and it was not the Protections that made others want our products, it was the innovacations of the Products, the quality, the craftsmanship etc. Unions destroyed most of that. People stood around with their hands in their pockets feeling time on the floor will give them the pay raises. Self Pride has vanished, devotion has vanished, Americans have become Lazy and with the feeling it is OWED to them and because it is AMERICAN it will JUST sell. Someone said it earlier, we have become the Nation of Handouts.
I had a kid I had hired at 16 as a Stock Boy, His job was to put away the shipements and learn the products that we carried. When he became of Age. I hired him as a Salesman, he had a real Basic Understanding of Audio and Electronics but I knew he had an interest. We paid an Hourly and a Commission based on sales. After one year and a cockiness that was unbearable at times, he told he was going to quit unless I gave him a payriase. I said PAYRAISE? You get your own raise by learning and sellin more and knowing how to qualify the customer and then sell what they need as add-ons. He said " I am worth $9.00 per hour" Geez! the wage then was $4.50 or maybe 4.75 he felt he was worth $9.00 because he said he was. I told him he had NO resume and he said he didn't need one and off he went. Who knows maybe he got his $9.00 per hour. But that5 is the attitude, everyone wants to get the check and no one wants to earn it nor do they have the patience to work their way up, they just want to be up.
NO! Denis I do not want Laws, regulations and Tariffs to force people to buy my product, I wan them to buy my product, because it is the best, made by the best and has Pride and devotion in each and everyone. It ismade with American Quality and Not Union Production. It has a Craftsmanship to it and not sloppily thrown together to beat the Time Clock. When Americans take Pride in themselves our Products will once again be the envy of the manufacturing world, Laws will only keep the higher quality Imports from coming in but the rest of the world will still be buying theirs and not ours, unless we wake up. No one will be told they have to buy American. Hell this site is about Tractors that aren't American. why? quality ain't here so why pay high wages when you can get the same quality for less wages elsewhere? Put the Pride back and the product would be able to be sold for more etc etc etc
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Limiting Eminent Domain
WW,
You're talking about fair competion where the only variable is quality. If the competition is fair, I'll buy a better product no matter where it's made. That's why I drive a Toyota disguised as a Chevy Prism. The average quality of a japanese vehicle is simply better than that of a comparable american made car. And there is no arguement that better quality in the japanese products has had a positive effect on the quality of American products.
But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about Nike building a factory in Indonesia and making sneakers there while paying 50 cents an hour and avoiding costs associated with occupational safety and environmental protections. Then they turn around and sell that pair of sneakers in the US for $125, while it might have cost them $5 to make that pair.
I'm talking about American workers getting screwed out of their incomes because the transnationals can make a better profit making their products oversees.
Do they have the right to do with their businesses as they please? Sure!
Do we collectively, as Americans, have a right to protect our common prosperity by punishing imports and encouraging domestic production? You bet!
Would I treat European or Japanese imports same as I would treat Chinese imports? Hell no! Because Europe and Japan do not compete with us on the basis of undercutting wages, like the Chinese do, but rather on the basis of producing better quality manufacture.
That's what I mean by replacing the "free trade" with Fair Trade.
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Limiting Eminent Domain
denis
You want to control the import of Foriegn Products? How long before they Boycott us?
People pay $125 for the Nike Sneakers because they feel it is a Better product. The Americans have the feeling you can buy American in Wal-MArt or K-Mart and if you want quality go to the better quality stores. How are you going to change that perception, denis? Laws and import tariffs will just put America in a back seat and the foriegners will buy other foriegn products. Americans don't even buy American, how are you going to get the rest of the world to do so?
I am afraid with the Internet, Global Travel, and Global Communications the era of selling to Isolated consumers is over. The ONLY way the U.S. is ever going to get back in the fracas is to make better products, stop cutting corners and hire people who want to work and make a better product that won't be looking over their shoulders every two minutes at the Time Clock.
The U.S. has 300 million consumers that will not buy American if the quality isn't there, period. Laws will only prolong the agony and isolate us even more. It is a World economy now and not a Country by country economy. We need to wake up and get rid of the lazy and the leeches and start promoting on merit and performance and paying the same way. As long as we have Unions we will be stuck with a limited amount of good workers and stuck with an abundance of workers who know how to take the FREE RIDE. Companies who sell junk will be short lived, if no one buys their products. Japan isn't even the sole importer to the U.S. as they use to be, now they are in competition with other countries as well, so they were smart, they kept their quality and focused not just on the U.S. but the whole world as their market place. We need to do the same. Sorry Denis, the age has come where talking to someone in Europe for nothing and in real time is NOW. We have foriegners right here on this site and most don't have a clue who they are. It isn't a local Site for JUST local people, the world has become the NEW BALL PARK.
How many people buy off of the Internet? How are you going to control that? regulate? I have a friend who makes hand made furniture and his stuff is fantastic. Some of his Hutches go for $5000 but they are hand made, hand sanded and hand rubbed to a finish. He understands wood expansion and selects the best wood and not cheap wood that needs Dark Satain to cover up the lousy wood. Local stores don't know how to sell his stuff, so he yanked from the morons and sells exclusively on the Internet hawleysfinewoodworking.com He ships all over the U.S. and Canada and there is no doubt if shipping were cheaper he would be shipping all over the world. His stuff takes a log while to make and it isn't something that is bought over night, nor is there an inventory and everything is a one-of-kind. He is what we need more of and if factories went back to the basics, we would have the business that you speak of, I am not for more regulations, tariffs and laws, and Yes! I beelive if we put Pride and Quality back into our work, we would have all of the business we need.
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Limiting Eminent Domain
WW,
I agree that work ethic is an issue for some although if you took a look around the rest of the civilized countries, you'd see that american workers are still some of the most hardworking in the world.
You're saying that our problems stem mainly from poor quality of our products. That's where I have a hard time communicating my idea. I'll try it again.
I. A consumer will make his choice based mainly on two factors
A. Price of the product
B. Quality of the product
If
A1 = price of product made in the US
B1 = quality of the product made in the US
A2 = price of foreign product
B2 = quality of foreign product
Then the consumer decision equation will nearly ALWAYS be as follows:
B1 - A1 < B2 - A2
if A2 is a negligible number, and it WILL be if your labor and regulatory costs are 10% of what they are in the US.
So much for your competition. Now if you want to pull the equation towards the American side, you have to cut costs and that means cutting wages and you CAN do that, but I DON'T WANT to do that, I want to maintain my standard of living above that of some bushman in Namibia. My predecessors and I earned that standard of living through many generations of hard work and education whereas those Bushmen spent their days since time immemorial picking their noses.
As to loosing foreign markets due to potential boycots, what foreign markets are you talking about? The China market, where we have a $60 billion / month trade deficit? The Mexico market where we are now running a deficit whereas before NAFTA we had a surplus? We have NO MARKETS to loose EXCEPT our own AMERICAN market - which is still be biggest market in the world. If we close our market to cheap imports, where else will chinese sell their junk? Who else will want it / have the money for it? If our markets are closed to cheap imports, there's still going to be a demand for A LOT of consumer products here in the US and people will come back to make those products here.
Re: individual sales over the web - will never replace bulk sales simply because payment for shipping an individual item will never be nearly as low as shipping items in bulk.
And besides, there are simple ways to tax Internet oversees purchases.
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Limiting Eminent Domain
Denis
I am sorry I still do not agree with you.
You think the U.S. Market is the Largest in the world? Then take out Boeing, McDonell-Douglas, General Dynamics, Colt, etc etc What I am telling you is that the Trade is measured in dollars. Our exports for the most part are Military goods, Large tickets and small employments. Now France is starting to compete in the A/C industry as well as russia and GB so how long we are there, time will tell. Back off the Military Products and the A/C and the U.S. becomes a very small exporter. People overseas feel the U.S. products are poor quality and over priced. How do yousolve the problem one of two ways, decrease price which will stimulate the exports briefly, until another country with better quality lowers their price, or Improve quality. The Improve quality starts with the Indiviudal concept of their job and then working for companies where you have pride in working.
I could easily make more money than I do, but prefer to sell the products that I do and I take a great amount of pride in my product. So if you are after ONLY a paycheck and feel you are entitled to a BIG one, then you are part of the problem. People have to willing to sacrifice and having a 60" Plasma is not the measure of success. Peple need to stand tall with teir dignity and their Pride and their Honor and not be willing to give it up for CASH. Unions strip people of Pride, Honor and Dignity and guarantees them good wages. People who stand around allday with their fingers up their ass and their mouth all Chocalote are not helping the U.S. We have lost our Pride and it shows in our Products, we have Lost our Honor and it shows in the short cuts we take and the cover ups we apply to the finish goods, we have lost our Integrety and it shows on how we are willing to keep working for the paycheck for a company who produces crap. Americans have options, they can freely MOVE, but don't, they don't like the hassle, instead they continue to make JUNK and try to make a FAIR competition on hte market by trying to force others to buy ter crap with Tariffs, Regulations etc etc. Sorry, Denis, I feel Americans are getting what they earn, you want money, Greed is born, you want quality Pride is born. Can Ilive like a Rich Man? No, not when there are so many out there making the money and no Pride, am I willing to trade my scrupples for the money? I am 55 and have not yet. I rather learn tolive te simplier life and keep my dignity than trade it for cash. Once the money is gone then I really am a nobody, as long as I have honor, Pride and Interety than I will always have someting.
There is no doubt in my mind tha is where the U.S. is losing it. Why do we even wantto import from China? because people will settle for less quality and less price, but in many areas the quality is equal or better and te price is less why? UNION LABOR, why am I agaisnt the Unions? Unions make the worker feel they own te company, they reward laziness and define a workers job. Let me tell youonelast story.
When I drove truck, I use to dread going into Mass or Conn or the Detroit areas or any UNION Wharehouses. I would back up to the specified loading dock and if there was no one on my dock to unload me, regardless if there was workers on either side, bullshitting, I sat there until the workers assigned to my dock happen to show up. I could not leave, I was locked by my ICC bumper to the loading dock. or I had to pay the wharehouse manager a Large LUMPER fee to unload te product that he ordered and wanted. That Lumper fee went into his pocket and was usually anywheres from $150 to $400 per load. WoW! pretty easy money. The other problem I had with Unions was quitting time, as I said I was locked to the dock and when 5pm came around, even if I had only pallet left on the trailer, I wa sthere until next morning. I got paid by how many loads a week I could do and it was ALWAYS UNION WHAREHOUSES that screwed me. I never had problems in NOn-Union Whare houses, everyone chipped in to help and they would stay the extra ten minutes to get you unloaded and on your way. UNIONS have destroyed this country and they are te problem why we are so over priced for equal or less quality products. The worker feels they are entitled to High Wages regardless and the Unions make sure they are paid, why for another example just look at the N.E.A. and the Teacher's Unions. 188 contract days per year, 100% Insurance coverage and No co-pay, Fringe benifits which are NOT part of salary are the Social Security and otherexpenses that come out of a normal workers paycheck, tey will never stay after school and teach a kid any more, they want more pay and more benifits and are SAT scroes are going downward. There aren't many teachers (Heroes. my ass) left who care about teaching tey are BENIFIT SEEKERS. there is te problem with the U.S. workers.
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Limiting Eminent Domain
WW,
You won't get an argument from me about unions. There's a union in the company I work for and I know exactly what you're talking about. The inmates are running the asylum.
Unionization is ultimately a form of communism and to me the only good commie is a dead commie. At the same time, corporate greed, arrogance and malfeasance is also a big part of the problems faced by American businesses. Just read up on Bethlehem Steel.
But all that aside, low oversees wages and high regulatory costs are THE main factors what driving businesses out of the US and if we can institute policies that will protect us from this kind of job loss, we'd at least stop the hemmorage.
As far as exports, you're making my point for me. We're not a big exporter anyway, what have we got to loose if other people decide to boycot us? Besides, arms dealing is not exactly the most moral way to shore up your exports. That kind of makes you want there'd be more conflict in the world. I'd rather not make money off people killing each other.
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Limiting Eminent Domain
Denis
Your first paragragh is the reason for the second. As far as the third, are you going to tell Americans what they can and can not buy? are you going to limit their choice by telling them they can NOT buy foriegn. How will you shut down the Internet? People will buy where they want and you can not regulate them to kind of be channeled into buying your product. The World has opened up and to think for a minute you can tariff the American Public into only buying American is crazy. You can not stop them, it is far too late for that and actually I don't think you could have stopped the progress that has open the Global Doors. The days of buying American through Default or lack of options, are OVER. We need to regroup and put the Pride back in the Product and not just in Mottos. We need to change our attitudes and our way of producing. Mass production was great for creating large Profits but not quality. Now we need to slow down the production rate, for the profit isn't there if no one is buying and we need to start making less but adding qulaity and then selling at a competive rate. It will come back. Look at the Chrysler cars of the 80s and 90s and now look at the 300C and the NEW Imperial or the Charger or even the Challenger. We have quality and we have junk for the person that doesn't want to spend the dollars. It si the Quality that is keeping Chrysler in the Black as GM and Ford go into the RED. It is very simple economics, you need to make a product people want and sell it for a price they will pay.
Unions have stayed well beyond their welcome, now it is time for us to think as Individuals and perform as TEAMs.
The French came out of no where and produced the Concord and the plane was expensive and yet sold and peope wanted to fly on it, why? quality.
I just rode ten hours on a Bus made in Germany and it had alot of technology on it, i mean the door was electric, the shades were electric, there was an electric DVD screen that unfolded from the ceiling, awesome sound, large front windows, and stupid looking morrors, but... the ten hour ride down and the ten hour ride back was very uncomfortable. So if we made a Bus that had comfortable seats and less of the Electric crap, we could have gotten those sales instead of some German Company. We don't and we didn't, Americans just need to look close at their competition and do better. That is really the end of the story. No Magic, No Tariffs just the desire to make a better product and then sell it on the Global Market.
You will also see the price of all unregulated products go down in price and the only competitve edge left will be the quality. QUALITY is the key word.
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Limiting Eminent Domain
ww,
how is poor quality the reason for low oversees wages?
You make excellent points on the need make a quality product, but you do not adress at all the issue of wage disparity.
like I said, low oversees wages and high regulatory costs are THE main factors that are driving businesses out of the US
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