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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Here's a recent story from CNN where a couple of armed robbers were instantly rehabilitated by a sweet old lady.
"I just started shooting," said Gloria Turner, 56. "I was trying to blow his brains out is what I was trying to do."
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
I firmly believe in the 2nd amendment, but we don't need every untrained tom, dick & Dirty harry pulling a gun out of their jacket in situations such as this thinking they can control it, "just imagine being in that scenario" .
David
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Murf, StephenR, and my Cummins Brother AV8R, truly men after my own heart! Stephen, I got one HUGE laugh out the spare tire analogy! However, a VERY true and accurate one.
I have undergone the concieled carry training and requirements in my state. I carry everywhere I go. The concieled carry permit does NOT give you the authority to make a law enforcement intervention. Let me be VERY clear on this. In most states that allow concieled carry; you may use lethal force IF you or someone around you is in "JEOPARDY" (this is a key legal word and condition) and imminent danger of being seriously harmed. In some, states you have a duty to retreat if able to do so. TN does not require this but does the rest of the above. Bottom line, let it pass, walk away, run away, do what you have to in order to get away from the threat. IF unable to do so and you are in jeopardy and imminent danger or serious harm......then you can fire. Otherwise you could be prosecuted and in any case expect to get sued. But it is better to get sued and still be breathing. The old addage of " better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
My wife and I both have concealed carry permits from Ulster county (where the shooting occured). In fact that is the only type of permit they grant because they don't want people openly carrying pistols. After this event my wife wondered whether she should return to carrying her gun. I recommended she NOT carry the gun.
We once had neighbors across the street who were getting divorced. They hired private investigators to monitor each other. One guy sat outside their house at night in his car watching everything going on. It angered my wife and one night my daughter came home crying (she was about 13 years old) because she got scared when walking home when she saw the PI and my wife lost her temper. My wife went out in the road - held a gun to the private investigator's head and told him to get the f*** out of there. This guy peeled out and took off the road like a bat out of hell.
I thought that was it that night, my life was over, and that I would be visiting my wife in prison. I now recommend she not carry because she is volatile. But the amazing thing is she went to the police station immediately afterward, told them what she had done, and they laughed! As long as a woman does it - it doesn't matter. If it was me I would have been put in jail!
You can see my wife on the tractor in my pics. She is the crazy blonde that I married. But with a gun? I don't know for sure. 
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Someone still needs to label their pictures, come on stop procrastinating. As for the permit, my wife and I both have one. Hers mainly in case an instance arises that she may want a gun or if we are out together and I leave it in her car. I don't want any "well the car is registered to her, she is going to jail." I almost always carry. PA is lenient, maybe too easy (I only say this since most states won't recipricate with us and they do with another state). Any citizen of US can get a PA permit if they qualify. Vermont is great. If you want to carry go ahead, no permit required. Florida seems to be the best right now. Any US citizen can get a Florida permit (through the mail) if they qualify, and I think the number of states that recognize Florida permits is in the high teens. Including PA and DE my close neighbor. I have the Florida application pack but have not opened it yet. I do know it requires fingerprints where PA does not.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
I am sure everyone on this board is a responsible person and has high respect for the lives of others. These personal attributes are also related to socio-economic status. We are all (most of us) tractor owning, land owning folk, that makes us different from the folks eaking out a living in the city slums. Some of these folks value life differently to us. Arm these folk and you have a recepie for carnage. Pity law enforcement having to deal with neighborhoods where every individual is packing and no one has respect for the value of life. There would be numerous instances where everyday disagreements would be settled with guns. Put yourself in their shoes and decide if you want everyone in the neighbourhood carrying guns. Imagine the violence, it's a parents worst nightmare. Speak to the mothers in these neighbourhoods, they all say the same thing: Please help us get rid of the guns, they are killing our children. It's not the people on this forum I worry about, its everyone else. More guns = more violence, but is it OK if its not my neighbourhood?
The US tried this social experiment back in the 1800's, the so called western era. What most folk don't realize is that it was a relativley short lived period (about 25 years). It was short lived because society could not tolerate the loss of life associated with everyday individuals blasting one another away over all manner of disputes. The rule of law and legal justice as we know it developed.
Also beware of retribution - its a very poor substitute for justice. Sooner or later those seeking retribution wind up as victims of retribution themselves - ask the Hatfields and McCoys (sp?).
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Is it possible that if the PI (refered to in Ncrunch32's post) had a partner in a different vehicle across the road and he had a gun, he would have had reasonable grounds to fire at Ncrunch's wife (assumption that his partner was in mortal jeapoardy)? Ncrunch looses his best friend over a incident that started off with their daughter coming in crying.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Ann, these city people as well as others of the socio-economic status you were referring to ARE already armed. The jails are full. The courts are full. A policeman on every corner is not possible, nor would I want that if it were. That is why many folks are arming themselves.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
"the city slums. Some of these folks value life differently to us."
Ann, I wonder if we should judge ourselves by society's lowest common denominator. If a group of people put little or no value on life should that mean I should factor that in as part of the norm? I don't think so. I don't always feel the need to carry a weapon myself but I support almost anyone's right to carry if they feel the need.
Not long ago we listened to daily reports of thousands of rapes and murders in the former Yugoslavia. Families were at the mercy of the armed thugs in power. At the same time we were importing hundreds of thousands of Yugoslavian 8mm and 7.62mm rifles. I couldn't help thinking that a family who possessed one of these rifles could have saved their own lives, possibly their country.
David
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
There is an old saying: "when the government bans all weapons, only the criminals will have them". There is a lot of truth to that statement.
Also, those for banning all weapons failed to realize, "guns don't kill, people kill people". Of course the media has picked up on this by referring to firearms as deadly weapons. More people are killed by vehicles than firearms, but you never hear the term "deadly cars or deadly trucks".
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