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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Yeah in light of everything that's happening in the world I think this is one of the more interesting topics of discussion.
No I don't advocate gunfights in down town NY, nor extermination of large masses of innocent people.
I also don't believe that weapons of any sort, in of themselves are harmful --- it's people that make them harmful. I.E. it’s the application of the weapon that matters.
Another fact, when you cram too many of any type of living creatures into too small a space you can certainly expect trouble. One of the by products of over crowding is intolerance. If you look at the majority of the inflamed social situations occurring through out the world and even here in the states, at the root will be folks unwilling to compromise their position.
Very sad state of affairs.
I live in a state where you can carry concealed. Live on acreage where we are fairly isolated but I know damn well walking around with my pea shooter ain't going to fix the big picture.
I guess I'm kind of a strange bird --- early fifties, fiscally conservative and the first time in my life I've voted for a Democrat. I too believe that this country has a value system problem, but I saw the solution differently than a lot of folks.
Don't like smoke screens and being lied to. Have looked up the word bigot many times, (type it into MS sometime). Believe that the individual has the right to make decisions about their own body. Don't have several millions of dollars to invest but would like to keep what I do have. Don't like the idea of seeing high tech jobs outsourced, (any jobs for that matter). And especially don't believe that thumping the bible and waving the flag is going to fix anything.
Did I mention that I'm fiscally conservative and that I've never voted democratic before?
Anyway the nation in general seems polarized on several fronts. In reading through this thread I kind of got a sense that it's probably representative of the same distribution of folks and ideas. In fact I’ve been lurking around this site for a couple of years and have been too cheap to pay my twenty bucks --- but this thread got the best of me … maybe it was the welding thread.
Just my $.02 worth, if it’s worth that much.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Nicely written JDC.
Having said that, I am now lost with this quote!~
"I guess I'm kind of a strange bird --- early fifties, fiscally conservative and the first time in my life I've voted for a Democrat."
Perhaps it's the + 10 thing, apparently a lot happened in the 15 years that separate us,!!
What I am trying to say with a certain clarity is what democrat caught your fancy and where in hell did that happen and what for???
Dean
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Well Dean,
To be honest my vote was not so much for but against.
At heart I'm more of an independent but those damn guys can't ever get beyond the dope smoking.
In reality there really isn't a two party system any more. These guys all drink from the same well and as a result very little differentiation. Really isn't much of a choice.
Personally I liked your namesake the best,(of those offered). Really liked his primal scream, but the mainstream guys just can't tolerate anybody with any passion.
The shame of it all is that I’m for personal choice, minimal gov and fiscal discipline. The traditional stuff the Reps have always claimed to be about. But I’m really turned off by what I perceive as mixing of church and state. Also I can go into a long discussion about why I personally believe going over to Iraq was absolutely the wrong action to take. I just feel for all the young folks that are over there and hope some good will eventually come of it.
If we were really dead set on taking care of biz, focus on Afghanistan and Iran were the targets that made sense.
As you know we'd been bombing the shit out of Iraq for 12 damn years, and with satellites parked overhead do you really believe Sadam could have taken a piss without us knowing?
And the other thing who's paying for all this crap? It ain't the guys with the money --- they've got tax breaks.
Dave
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
JDCMan, your comments are well heard. I too have become despondent about our two parties. Neither represents my views, I have affinities and problems with and for both. I have this theory: I call it "The big boiling pot of jam theory". I shall explain. There used to be a mix of ingredients that made a republican political platform, and a different set for a democrat platform. Now they just throw whatever goes into a big pot boil it all up and call it a campaign. In the the end republican jam tastes the same as democrat jam. Each party will tell you "my jam has strawberries in it", or "mine has grapes" but in the end its just jam, and if I wanted grapes I would buy grapes not jam. Its no longer about values, its about money and the whole lot of them lie like their pants are on fire. What kind of system are we in when we have organized groups whose sole purpopse is fact checking the campaigns. It makes me sick, I have never been so disillusioned with our political process.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
I have a couple of thoughts about this two party system. First, whenever you have several parties if they are all doing their job they will converge to two parties who fight for the center. We see both parties using focus groups and surveys to find out what the average American thinks. We see here are two distinct strategies that have yielded the very close split between red and blue (electoral college perspective). There is a lot of market research at play here which spoils a lot of the fun.
Second, I believe that in politics the motivation is to win rather true belief in principles. In the end people are people and there are all these shades of gray. I was watching a show on Ben Franklin that told how originally Ben Franklin wanted to reach a compromise with the British. After he was thrashed in the House of Commons he then decided to support the revolution. Kind of makes you wonder about some of the real motivations that led to the founding of our nation.
After I get past wondering about the motivations for the founding of this nation, I wonder if where we are today in this nation would be approved by our founding fathers. I'll bet if they say some of the things going on they would want to hang a few people. They could never have envisioned many of the things we have seen.
So what is it that keeps us together as a nation? Is it our cultural flexibility? Our good work ethic and religious foundation? Our governmental system of checks and balances? Our educational institutions? Will we survive another 100 years? Or will we be like the Roman Empire?
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02-20-2005, 23:22 
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