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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
To me the gun control lobyists sound a LOT like the people who say one country should keep it's nose out of the business of it's neighbours business and politics.
I've seen the consequences of both first-hand, it's not a pretty picture. I was in Grenada in the fall of 1983, I saw the dead bodies. The bodies of people who didn't think they were in a situation of civil war either.
"In general I find it really difficult to carry out those sort of principaled decisions on a practical everyday basis."
Nobody said it was easy to do the proper thing.
Unfortunately, even with all the medical miracles we have available today, death is still a permanent condition.
Best of luck.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Yes, AV8R, I too am enjoying the civil debate. Thankfully there is debate (and not just mud slinging). One of the large problems our modern society faces is that of "Group think" we need to solicit opinions that are different to our own, else we learn nothing.
My position on concealed weapons arises from watching news reports on murders (generally on TV - sometimes 2 or 3 a night). I keep thinking that there has to be a better way, and I am unsure that carrying guns is part of that solution. There are a few of you on this forum that were in law enforcement what are your experiences in this area if any?
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Ann, forgive me for leaving the impression that I was painting you with the anti-hunting brush (pun intended). That was not my intent. I was cleaning my analogy when it went off.
I am one of those retired LEO types. My experience is that the vast, vast majority of those shootings you see on TV every night have a lot more to the story than you can get from Tom, Dan or Peter in 15 seconds.
Most cases have years of domestic violence behind them or other repetitive bad behaviors and judgments.
You never hear that the cops have been separating them for years and they keep coming back together like moths to the flame until one kills the other and then commits suicide.
Then the talking heads cluck about the gun being at fault, but they never blame the kitchen knife that gets used when the gun got hocked for drugs the week before.
And when have you heard a call to ban gasoline when arson is used to kill?
What do you call it when some unwashed street dealer gets whacked after selling the wrong guy baking soda at cocaine prices for the 100th time? Is that a gun problem? Society is awash with guns and now some poor druggy is dead?
What happens when he gets run down by his antagonist with a stolen car? Now we have a car problem? Society is awash with cars? You should give up your car to make society safer? Eh?
There is one plain fact: every place that honest citizens are "allowed" to carry guns has seen a decline in violent personal crime and an increase in property crime. Criminals are dumb but they are not stupid.
If guns cause crime, then flys cause manure and fire extinguishers cause fires.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Why, in your opinion, would property crime increase?
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
There are no "brave" criminals.
They still have to make a living and they do figure out there isn't much future in robbing passers-by with a broken bottle when there is a likelihood of being confronted with a handgun and shot for their stupidity.
So they start looting parked cars and doing daylight burglaries..... after ringing the doorbell to make sure there is no one home and shoplifting, etc.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
In Texas, after passing a background check you take a 2 day course concerning the laws and various scenarios surrounding concealed carry. You then must pass a test and qualify on the range. Every 4 years you must renew and go throught the same process except the course is one day.
As someone mentioned, those with past criminal records have not stopped carrying guns because they have been disqualified from having a concealed carry permit. What has happened in Texas, as in every other state that has enacted right to carry laws, is that violent crime has dropped. Bad guys are bullies and opportunists. If they know that someone may bloody their nose or worse, they are much more likely to not deal with that party.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
If everyone boarding an airplane was given a handgun, travelers would be more polite. If you have a concealed carry permit, you must act responsibly. You also are not supposed to take the law in your own hands and only shoot if your life is in danger. Most criminals are cowards and are afraid of confrontation if they do not have the upper hand.
Back in November I witnessed a hit and run accident. Car that hit a truck, sped off and I followed. I called 911, told them of the situation, gave description of the car along with license plate number. The license plate was stolen or whatever. I followed the black gal for a number of blocks, weaving around a number of streets in the ghetto. The 911 responder told me to drop back and not follow to closely until the police arrived. They told me to be careful in case the person had a gun. Told them I have a concealed permit. They were concerned that I would shoot. I told them, I will not fire unless fired upon! I could see that the gal ahead of me and the passenger knew I was behind them. I could see the passenger had a cell phone and was talking to someone. I was following them through a maze of streets with virtually no traffic. All of a sudden a whole bunch of cars came from nowhere and I had to slow down and stop for them. That was just enough time for the gal to get away when her friends ran interference. The police came just after this happened and all of the other cars disappeared. Next time, if there is one, I'm going to be much more proactive.
For close quarters, I like my Sig 229 .40 S&W with laser sights. When I need to reach out, the S&W .357 Mag with 8 3/8 barrel is just the ticket. Never go anywhere without one of them and atleast 1 box of ammo.
Carry and conceal permits are only for people with cool heads that never flaunt the weapon or respond unnecessarily. If you shoot someone, it better be for a good reason and you will likely be sued by the family of the criminal. Only in America! eh!
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Just got back from the Kingston mall. I took the day off with wife to do the taxes and pick some things up. It was business as usual at the mall, we did see a security guard at Target (next to Best Buy where the gunman entered).
I agree with AnnBrush that anything could have happened that day my wife took off after the PI. Thank God it turned out to be a crazy story - a somewhat funny story after the fact since nothing happened. There could have been a much different ending.
However, I do believe people have the right to have arms - you do have to be smart about how you use them - as most of the people on this site seem to be. We acquired our gun permits when we had a 32' boat that we used to sleep on at anchor during the summers. The Boat US organization actually recommended that people in boats be prepared to protect themselves while in boats. So it seemed to make sense then to get the permits.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Denwood, I added captions to my pictures. Thanks for kicking my butt to get me to do this  The wife is in Pic 5 - clearly not a person to toy with! Next Valentine's day will be our 25th so we are going to do something special then. She has taken me on some wild adventures!
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Well the way I look at it is--the criminals who want to carry already are, so to make it lawfull to get a permit enables the honest people to even out the scales. I would love to know how many of those ghetto shootings were by a permited shooter.  I just watched a special about guns in Philly schools, and how the metal detectors have cut it down to almost none being taken. Now some kids are stashing the guns outside in bushes etc. Maybe that is what we can do in Ohio when we shop a store that doesn't allow guns. I know when I dart in and out of the state, I pull over unload and do my best to be legal by putting ammo out of reach in a different spot from the gun also in an unreachable spot, not that easy in a pickup.
Anyway they showed some of the guns that had been taken last year and by and large they were very nice pieces, only cost 20-50 bucks on the street. Obviously stolen but I read someone saying we need to get guns off the (ghetto)streets. People say it all the time but almost nobody does anything. I have seen the guns for cash and wow did the guns show up and nice ones, but they were destroyed and that costs a lot of money and I am sure not donating. Why can't I set up a booth in the slums and pay $20 bucks a working gun. Guns off the street, and back in a good persons caring hands, everyone wins.
Any one want to go in halves with me? But for the Police it is better to leave them on the streets because if I got them, I would go to jail for recieving/possessing stolen property. Never mind it would help solve the problem and the guns are already stolen and could be involved in a future crime. Sure, they could get stolen again but they are much farther from the hands of criminals than for sale on the corner.
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02-15-2005, 10:01 
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