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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Whoa Ann,
Your post smacks of elitism, "We're better than them, so it's ok for us to defend ourselves but not them." Like 2HL stated, they are already armed what they lack is a respect for life.
Maybe we should talk about the social experiment that has been going on since the '50s, which takes responsibility away from people. You don't need a family, have as many kids out of wedlock and get paid for it! Don't get married, you don't need a responsible male figure in your kids life. We'll do it!
No Ann, you're trying to put a Band-Aid on a festering wound.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Ann, with all due respect, I do not think for a moment you are not an itelligent person, however I do not think you are looking at the 'big picture' here.
As I stated above, very strict gun regulations in Canada have done NOTHING to curb the violence involving guns.
I would use as the other end of the spectrum, as an example, Switzerland, by law, every male over the age of 18 is aurtomatically an ARMED member of the national militia. Notice I said ARMED. Their regulations are such that every memeber of the militia has and maintains a true 'military assault weapon' at their place of residence. FULL AUTO CAPABLE 7.62mm rifles. In other words every house in which a male over the age of 18 lives has at least one gun in it. They also, by European standards, have very liberal gun ownership regulations.
When was the last time you heard people speak of a mass shooting in Switzerland, or the number of gun deaths there. You don't, because it doesn't happen. Why, because the entire population is taught about it from an early age. They teach gun safety in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL to small children, who grow up with a healthy respect for them, just like hot ovens and big dogs, all of which CAN be dangerous.
This education is so effective that although Switzerland also, unfortunately, has one of the highest rates of teen suicide, almost none of these people use firearms to kill themselves. Even then they act responsibly towards guns.
We live in an open society which depends on adults within that society to live within the limits of acceptable behaviour VOLUNTARILY, unfortunately that does not always happen. We have the police, courts and prisons to deal with the violators.
Gun restriction is the top of a very slippery slope, maybe the next is alcohol, or cars, lots of people kill others by running them over. Maybe they should ban baseball, lots of people are beaten to death every year with a bat.
The bottom line from my point of view, responsibility for actions, period. It is the only thing that has a chance of working. It worked once, it can work again.
Best of luck.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
The situation in former Yogoslavia is a poor analogy, we are not in a situation of civil war. I seriously doubt that if everyone was armed with a rifle that the outcome would have been any different - that war was largly motivated by ethnic cleansing (a subject most Americans have little personal experience with).
In general its my observation that more guns = more violence, the question society has to ask itself is what level of violence are we prepared to accept. The question I ask myself is: Is the quality of my life reduced somewhat by the feeling that I need to carry a weapon with me at all times.
On a practical note, Ohio passed a concealed carry law in 2004. In the law was a provision that any premisis could put up signage that prohibited concealed weapons on their private property. Concealed weapons are not permitted on most government property (schools, govt. buildings etc). Overnight most private institutions restricted concealed weapons on their properties (the daycare where my kids go, the company where I work and most shopping malls for example). So what do you folk that carry weapons do in these instances, do you carry and then get to the door and see the sign and go back to the parking lot to drop off your gun. I guess I an wondering how you make it work for you. It seems to me that these signs are everywhere and it would make it very inconvieniant to effectively carry a gun? How do you do it?
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
"we are not in a situation of civil war. "
Ann, Why is Yugoslavia a poor analogy? Or Murf's discussion of Switzerland which is the exact opposite? Call it what you will, the reason there was ethnic cleansing is that there was a portion of the populace with no power. In many of our minds, an armed populace has power over tyranny.
Dave
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
What do you think that guy at the Kingston Mall would have done if he saw a "No Guns" sign there?
Personally, if I saw that sign, they would lose a customer.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Murf,
I'm glad to see that Canada is not a lost cause as long as there are people like you there. But you might become more in the minority since some of the American Libs have theatened to move there after our Nov. elections.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
I guess one response would be to quit shopping at a mall that banned weapons, is that how most other folks would respond?
In general I find it really difficult to carry out those sort of principaled decisions on a practical everyday basis. For me its kind of analagous to shopping at Wal-Mart i dont really like the fact that they put Mom and Pop places out of business, but I really hate discovering I got screwed on an item that was half the price over the street, bottom line is I still shop at Wal-Mart. Getting on with life becomes very difficult. What do the rest of you do?
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
"The US tried this social experiment back in the 1800's, the so called western era. What most folk don't realize is that it was a relatively short lived period (about 25 years). It was short lived because society could not tolerate the loss of life associated with everyday individuals blasting one another away over all manner of disputes."
This is one of the best examples I have ever seen of the nature of the true problem.
The statement above is passed off as true and no one questions it because we have all seen the proof. The only problem is the "proof" is a lie called a motion picture.
Most were made 100 years or more after the fact by people who were not there and got their information from what amounted to the National Enquirer of the era.
Imagine someone making a "true story" of life in America circa 1980 in the year 2220. The surviving source material consists of hours of daytime soap operas, porno flicks and lurid grocery store tabloids.
THEN..... your descendants pass judgment on you for your amoral, flat earth/saquatch beliefs and behaviors and set about passing laws and social reforms to prevent society from returning to a time that never existed in the first place.
It goes way beyond the whole gun thing.... I have met many anti-hunting types who got the foundations of their social agendas for Disney cartoons. Run Bambi, it's hunters!
We've got to do better than that.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
This is an interesting (and civil) debate here.
I think that to Ann's benefit she looks at the inherent "goodness" of people, and many of us look at the inherent "badness" of people. As much as I would like to see things as Ann does, I cannot. Life's experiences have taught me otherwise. I own many guns. Not one is registered, and not one ever will be.
As the saying goes, "If guns were outlawed, then, only the outlaws would have guns." I guess that would make me an outlaw, too.
"...out of my cold, dead, hands..."
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
You assume that my interpertation of that era comes from the movies - not so. We do however agree that a problem IS that the motion picture industry has done an amazingly poor job of depicting what life was like back then.
Please dont assume I am anti hunting, I phesant hunt regularly (Missouri, Iowa and Nebraska) and enjoy doing so.
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