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2ndHandLion prompted this
Something 2ndhandLion said last night prompted a question I have for anyone who wants to comment. He mentioned shortage or civil disruption. With some of the recent natural disasters I’m wondering if people should think a bit about being ready for those problems whether they’re caused naturally or politically. Things have gone so smoothly for so long that I’ve become complacent in terms of stocking up on anything for emergencies. So assuming there is potential for problems, what should people stock up on and how much is enough?
Dave
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2ndHandLion prompted this
Sometimes I don't feel sorry for the victims since they are partially responsible for their situations. In the area that I live and work in, doesn't have earth quakes or hurricanes. Although, Tornadoes are a potential threat along with civil disturbances (national news has focused on the mid-Michigan area with all the recent shootings). Likewise, winter months and storms can cause power outages,etc.
I have strong feelings that one should take care of himself and his family while also helping friends and neighbors whenever possible. My feelings are that extra gas, generators, chain saws, axes, shovels, etc. along with some bottled water and canned foods, some ice and weather related protective clothing/gear should be on hand. I also feel an envelope full of cash can't hurt. Being an advocate of 2nd amendment rights, personal protection is also warranted and guaranteed by our constitution. I own pistols/rifles/shotguns in almost all common calibers or gauges with lots of ammo for each.
Regarding my earlier statement of people being partially at fault. If the Governor declares a State of emergency with mandatory evacuation and you don't go. Don't be crying about being left behind. If you are a tourist and have 3-4 days notice that a storm is coming, get out of town or the country. If you live in Tornado alley, extra housing considerations should be taken. Why would you live in a commonly stricken area by Hurricanes?
I also have an extra vehicle and maintain a 2nd residence 100 miles away from the primary not only for vacationing purposes but just in case.
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2ndHandLion prompted this
Not much I can add to the last post except to say that we have a big problem here when most people (except for the folks who operate their own farm equipment  ) look at the government as a father-figure whose job it is to bail you out of trouble every time you screw up. In the good old days, people were smart enough to live on high ground to avoid floods; now Uncle Sam will bail these folks out every time the water comes up to their roofs. Hey, it's only taxpayer's money, who cares.
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2ndHandLion prompted this
Awe crap! What did I do now!? ;O) In answer to your question, that is a not so simple answer. It is somewhat of a "Catch 22" in that the more stuff you store up, to a point, the more of a potential target you make yourself in the event of a civil disturbance. Running a generator is like ringing the dinner bell for looters and hoodlums. So you need to have on hand and at the ready VERY reliable and accurate weapons to protect yourselves and your property. In the course of an even small fire fight (God forbid) 1 shot in 10 hits its target at best (with most people who are not WELL trained) and it is not difficult to go through several hundred rounds of ammunition. Enough food, water, fuels, spare parts, first aid supplies, and ammunition to last you at the very minimum for 10 days in my opinion would be wise. Not everyone has the spare cash to do this so it is VERY important to have a plan with your neighbors to join together and help each other out. THERE IS SAFETY IN NUMBERS. MRE's are a VERY good source of long term storage food but are kinda pricey. Body armor is also another consideration if you can afford it. It is a sad state of our culture and nation that this type of preparation is needed but as many have seen in the news lately. The fabric of our nation is very frayed and not as strong as many thought. Friends of ours who were in south Mississippi when Katrina roared through were calling for fuel and ammuntion for the most part. Looting was rampant and what most folks don't realize is the horrible drug addiction problem in this nation is a strong driving force in this type of behavior as when the drugs run out, the addicts become VERY aggressive......... no.......... rootless in employing ANY means necessary to get more drugs or loot to trade for more drugs. New Orleans could happen ANYWHERE in this country. I do my best to help out my neighbors and others but I draw the line at the safety of my family.
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2ndHandLion prompted this
I also have practically no sympathy for the folks in Florida right now. They had almost a weeks notice that a hurricane was headed their way. Being the 8th hurricane in 15 months, I would assume they are familiar with what happens afterwards and would take precautions based on that. Apparently I'm quite wrong in my assumptions based on the news reports.
I live in the country. When the weather's bad in winter, there is no going out. We have canned food that is usually good to last at least 3-7 days. I keep it on hand in case we run low and the nearest grocery store isn't that close. We also have a chest freezer that has a decent supply of food, but has run down lately. I had been getting a 1/4 beef and 1/2 a hog each year as it's cheaper. But the job insecurity for me (we're being bought out) has me holding back on that.
I usually have some gas on hand for the tractor as it's good to keep it around and handy rather than run out and have to run the 7 miles to the gas station in the middle of mowing the yard.
Because we live in the country, we keep a weather radio by the bed for those great midwest thunderstorms. We also keep flashlights by the bed and in the basement. Nothing worse than the power going out while your sitting on the can. We even have one that has a dynamo and a radio so it doesn't need batteries and you can get news reports.
We try to keep the cell phones charged up, especially during the summer when a storm may take land lines out. We also keep at least 2 days worth of water in the fridge, just because we like it cold. It's also handy in an emergency.
These are very basic precautions and are minimal at best. But they come in handy. When we lost our transformer 2 months ago, dinner was cooked on the grill (propane) and flashlights provided plenty of light. It really wasn't an inconvenience other than not being able to watch the Wisconsin football game on ESPN.
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2ndHandLion prompted this
2ndhand - you posted your reply while I was typing up mine.
I live in the country which is different from most cities. My neighbors are a pretty good lot even though we are scattered. Everyone out here is armed. It's a tool for critters, hunting for food and sports, etc. The neighbors are likely to band together and help each other out when things go bad. We saw that when it flooded bad here a couple of springs ago. People helped move equipment and such out of the way and helped ferry people in canoes. We had no looting. But we aren't in a city.
Now my parents live in a large city. If a major event hit there, I'd be over there in a hurry trying to get them and the critical stuff out (papers, etc) as it easily could drop into mayhem. My folks would be fine as they are armed and have food supplies. But surprisingly few people in cities even consider how dependant they are on electricity and such. Gas station pumps run on electricity?
An example of how bad it is can be found in talking to some of the people that work in the call center of an appliance manufacturer. Someone actually called in because their washer stopped running in the middle of the load. Run through the basics, yes it's plugged in, etc. they run through the basics. Then the callcenter lady asks for the model and serial number so she can get an appointment setup for a tech to visit. They can't read the numbers because the light in the room doesn't work. The light in all the other rooms don't work. Why? Because the power is out. No connection what so ever in their brains.
So try telling these people a hurricane is coming so take preperations. Why do that? If I need gas I can run down to the gas station and buy it. No connection that if you don't have power, the gas station won't either.
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2ndHandLion prompted this
The problem is, it is not feasible to have enough gas on hand to run a generator for 10 days or 2 months in the case of Katrina. Recently (couple years ago) when the power grid went out in Detroit covering a vast area, everyone came north to find gas. Gas stations with power a hundred miles north of Detroit ran out of gas within 6-8 hours of the outage.
If I was a tourist in New Orleans and there was no way to get out by car, bus, train or plane you know I would have bought a motorbike or bicycle to get out.
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2ndHandLion prompted this
When we built our house we had one corner of the basement made into a 12x12 concrete fireproof room. That's where all the guns, ammo, canned goods, valuables, etc. get stored. We doubled the size of the propane tank, to 1000 gallons, so we can run the generator for probably six weeks if we duty cycle it. Lots of deer and elk around here so we can shoot for fresh meat. No real dependency on utilities, we have fireplaces for heat on every floor and are surrounded by forest. We built on top of a mountain so floods shouldn't be a problem. Our biggest threats are earthquakes. Moving back to the city would make me pretty nervous these days. Paranoid? Maybe, but I feel pretty safe.
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2ndHandLion prompted this
I was thinking that in a worst case scenario cash might not be worth much or anything at all. Even putting away a few thousand dollars worth of gold or gold coins could at minimum get your family through the worst of it. Gold hasn't been a very good investment since I've been alive but then again shares of Ebay stock won't help you if the infrastructure fell apart.
Dave
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2ndHandLion prompted this
We probably have enough canned food to last a 1/2 year - not because of planning for a disaster but because my wife hoards stuff. We have a 30x60 foot basement so full I can barely weave my way through it. Our weakness for a long term situation is that I have a 8KW gas generator and maybe 20 gallons of gas on hand. I should have bought a diesel portable but they don't have enough KW for my wife.
The other weakness is, as you guys suggest, from NYC. If the city had to evacuate we would be over-run with looters and worse - and the first place they would go is my house. I have a few guns but not enough to stave off the millions of people that would be roaming through the upstate suberbs. I think the entire northeast would be in trouble then.
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10-28-2005, 09:23 
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