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Mississippi - state of mind
I am of the same mindset as Peters when it comes to the flag-burning amendment. The flag is important, but I cannot support measures that smack of idolatry.
First, give me an ammendment that would prohibit the burning of crosses. Now there's a blasphemy!
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Mississippi - state of mind
Denis
To show RESPECT to our flag is not worshiping the flag. No one is putting the flag in place of God. I do not understand where you mean it would be idolatry. To tell people they can NOT piss on it, shit on it, or use it as Art or whatever is NOT worshipping it. People who have served the flag and for those who have it flying on their Headstones, it is just asking for RESPECT FOR IT. To me that RESPECT goes for ANY flag used by Americans and includes the Flag of the South. If Americans died for it, it should be RESPECTED and NOT used to feed an ego of some Political agenda or Racial cause. I think PATRIOTISM is a better word than IDOLATRY.
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Mississippi - state of mind
EW: The question why are you living here? Only indicates that we are not following what we are commanded to do as Christians and have no concept of what it means to be a Christian.
If you are not comfortable about talking about the most important aspect of your life, you might need to rethink your objectives and priorities.
WW: Patriotism is a better word, but does not change the reality of what is happening.
You are off by a factor of 10 on your number of slaves from the census. There were more than that in MS alone, something like 450,000.
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Mississippi - state of mind
Peters
I never gave reference to the Number of Slaves only the number of Slave Owners and that was the topic. You challenged my point about 99.9% of the soldiers dying did not own slaves, didn't know what a slve was etc. You said that 46% of the families owned slaves and I refutted that with facts from the 1860 cencus of the South.
I have no idea how many slaves there were I do know many stayed as slaves even after they had letters of freedom in their possesions. So not all slaves were unhappy or being brutalized. Many were, I do not argue that, we have employees who are treated the same way in sweat shops, so you don't have to be a slave to be mistreated. The point was about who was doing the dying and I stand by my figures that 99.9% of the soldiers who were doing the dying did not own one.
You may live in Mississippi but I do not think you can speak for them any more than I can for Vermonters. Politicians think they can, but seem to respond to those who lobby with the most money and then claim they heard their constiguents speak.
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Mississippi - state of mind
WW
I have all the respect in the world for the flag, people who burn flags are despicable america-haters, but I will not cross the line of protecting a civic symbol against the 1st amendment guarantees.
There's another issue with the flag-burning amendment. Flag burning is clearly a political statement - and that is what 1st amendment is intended to defend. Why do we put so much effort into chipping away at the freedom of political speech when things like porn and cross-burning don't get a mention. Criminalize porn and cross-burning first - these are NOT forms of political speech. After you do that, come back to me about protecting the flag. Until you deal with indecency in American culture that has flourished under the 1st amendment guarantee, I don't want to hear about flag protection. How about we protect our children and Christian symbols first.
EW
A debate is a debate - Christian viewpoint is as good as any. If Bible passages make you feel uncomfortable, maybe that's because they are hard to refute.
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Mississippi - state of mind
Peters
Flag burning is NOT protected under the 1st Amendment any more than yelling "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater would be protected under the 1st or Saying "BOMB" on board a crowded commercial airliner.
I agree with you somewhat about Porn, but as a Bible man, why is Making Love deemed as indecent and killing is selling like crazy in theaters? Why is the human body deemed indecent and yet it is created by God? I fully agree with Killing Child Molesters and Rapists, but have we not created the immense curiosity by making nudity so taboo? Do the African tribes who run naked have the same crimes as a clothed society does? Are Nudist Colonies evil? Why is it a Sin to look at a woman with Lust, I do even when she has all her clothes on. Smile..
There is some Porn that should stay Porn but much is not. In New York State now a woman can be Topless in public and it is not Indecent Exposure. Breast feeding in Public is no more Taboo than a Hug. It is how it is precieved by the people who have their noses stuck too high in the air. I came into this world Naked and maybe the delivery rooms should be classified as PORN, I mean there my wife was, legs spread and people gathered all around. Ah! but it is said it was for Medicine and therefore OK. If Raedon comes from our homes what comes from our clothing? Am I being ridiculous, yup! to prove a point that we are a bit too carried away I am. Nakedness is NOT porn. Just my opinion. God created woman and did a right fine job and he gave me eyes so I could appreciate his work.
Oh! and Bible passages are easily refuted, don't forget the Bible was written over a period of 1600 years and by 90 authors, so you can guarantee me there is NO exaggerations or bad intel? Don't get me wrong, I beleive in God , I just don't trust anything that man says.
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Mississippi - state of mind
WW, you confused my post with Peters; I'm honored 
Flag burning is NOT the same as yelling bomb - the latter can result in a stampede and injury and is therefore dangerous, the former is an expression of a political viewpoint that does not pose direct physical threat to anyone.
Human body is not indecent, the selling of it is. You have it on loan from God, you and I will be held responsible for how we treated it in this life. Sacred things, like procreation, are not to be paraded in public. Societies that do so degenerate and cease to exist.
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Mississippi - state of mind
Denis
Sorry about the confusion who I was responding to.
you made a good point but I feel I must challenge it.
Flag Burning is said to be protected under the Freedom Of Speech Amendment or Amendment 1, no where in that Amendment does it state that Freedom is revoked if it causes panic which causes harm. That has been assumed and accepted. It only says "abridging the freedom of speech" I agree that yelling FIRE in a crowded theater may cause Physical Harm, but isn't mental anguish or Mental harm equal and therefore disrespect to the American Flag by fellow Americans should be disallowed? If you are going to give EXCEPTION to the 1st Amendment based on precieved Physical Harm then why not Mental Harm as well. Now SLANDER causes No physical Harm (it may but more often than not, it doesn't) and yet you may go to Court and be sentenced for Slander, Assault (not Assault and Battery but just Assault), deflamation of character etc etc. Now where is the limitations of the Freedom of Speech for these actions written? surly not in the Consitution but in Federal and State laws, so does the State and Feds have a right to change the protection of the Constitution without ratifing a Bill and making an Amendment? ah! so we really could do the same for the Flag, we just rather hide behind the Freedom of Speech Amendment and hope anyone who wants passage just gives up, more of that Tolerance stuff.
Really denis, be honest, does it really bother you MORE to have a Flag Disecretation Amendment than it does me not having one? So you are (meaning everyone who is against, how about a people vote) telling me and all Veterans who have served the Flag (I believe you are a Veteran too) and for those who are buried beneath the flag ex: U.S.S. Arizonia or died carrying the flag into combat, or raised the flag on Mount Surabachi, or San Juan Hill, or Shilo, Gettysburg, Or any of the hundreds of battles or have it as an arm patch to represent WHO they are, don't matter? Do you put your hand over your heart when the flag goes by? why? Do you stand up, face the flag and put your hand over your heart when the National Anthem is played? why? Do you mean it when you look at the Flag and Pledge Alligiance? why? If you said YES! then what is wrong having everyone either RESPECT IT or ignore it but DO NOT DISRESPECT IT. Having an Amendment to Respect the flag does not mean you have to change any of your NO answers to YES (unless I am standing beside you j/k)it merely means that the Veteran and many other GOOD People of this country find a need to keep the flag with dignity and repsect and to piss on it, burn it or shit on it is a real SLAP in the face for those who look at the flag as all they have served for.
Come on Denis would the Flag Desecration Amendment keep you awake at night because you Honestly would look at it as imposing on YOUR Freedom of Speech rights?
My body is on loan? don't you mean my SOUL? My body stays here it is my VEHICLE. My Soul is what will be judged. you said "Sacred things, like procreation, are not to be paraded in public. Societies that do so degenerate and cease to exist." What makes procreation sacred? a concept can be sacred but not a flag? I am confused. Will ALL naked Africans go to Hell? Doesn't this go back to what I said months ago, "it is only a sin if you believe it to be a sin and do it"? Doesn't one of the Ten Commandments say "Love thy neighbor" kinda like the Second Amendment now isn't it, depends who reads it will determine what is meant by it. J/K Now! with Viagra and four hour erections, wow! alot of neighbors can be loved, start knocking on them doors. I don't think God would think that if I hugged my wife while we were at a nudist colony, I was evil. Adam and Eve were both Naked in the current public. I would think too, that if Adam and Eve only had to TWO sons, Cain and Able, then incest probably played a role in kick starting the Human Race. So Denis, the Bible is a tool, it is a guide and people need to read it and learn and not become parakeets or puppets. Seek to do good and you will be rewarded but seek to be bad and be punished. Pictures of Making Love is evil and pictures making war is good and earn Pultzer Prizes? I am sooooo confused.
Denis and Peters
My goal is NOT to discredit God but to discredit what man says about God.
question
"Can God create a Rock that he can not lift?"
If he CAN NOT create a Rock he can NOT lift, then he is NOT ALMIGHTY.
If he CAN create a Rock he can NOT lift, then he is NOT ALL POWERFUL.
God! I am sure is the creator of Heaven and Earth, man is the creator of Hollywood.
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Mississippi - state of mind
Peters and DenisS: For the record I'm a Fundmentalist Baptist.
"EW: The question why are you living here? Only indicates that we are not following what we are commanded to do as Christians and have no concept of what it means to be a Christian.
If you are not comfortable about talking about the most important aspect of your life, you might need to rethink your objectives and priorities."
My "priorities and objectives" aren't up for discussion here. Again, we can have a discussion without being preached at. Just because you lean one way or another religion-wise doesn't mean you have to bring it to the table (read: keep it to yourself). Bringing the bible into the fray is like saying you have the last word, or that no one can challenge it---case closed. That is very dangerous. From your religious perspective (not a "thinking-man's" you have the last and final word, because YOU have it from/on a "higher authority". That's bunk. Anyone who thinks this way is like a machine---"garbage in, garbage out".
Here's another analogy: It's sort of like when a little brother says to the older brother at dinner time "come inside and wash your hands". Big brother doesn't listen does he out of instinct but moreover self-preservation (you ain't in charge)? BUT if little brother says "MOM says come in and wash your hands" there is no question that he has "authority"--no discussion---no debate---AND no reasoning--no thought on big brother's behalf. See what I mean? If you leave MOM out of it and use your own words and thought processes to get your point across you will fare better in a discussion. You should be able to think on your own, reason on your own and speak on your own in an intelligible way without having to bring man-made, feel-good, look-at-me, "religion" into it. Anyone can regurgitate scripture to make fit a particular purpose or cause--look at the problems we have terrorists and al Queda as an example. And they think THEY are right and hell-bent on having the last word. Borderline zealotry has no place in discussions or debates. And for that matter in society in general.
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Mississippi - state of mind
Earth
Simply OUTSTANDING, well said and not mean Spirited in any way, raw and very to the point. Good job.
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