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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Still doesn't change the fact that we pay around 50% to 75% of our earnings in taxes.
SIMPLIFIED????????????? Hah!!!!!!!!!!! ;O) You missed your calling as a comedian wingwiper.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
One thing that makes the US stand head and shoulders above the rest of the world is that we're the last socially conservative country in the Christian world. Not the whole country, but a major part of it. I take pride in the fact that abortion and homosexuality are topics of debate here in the US instead of accepted reality like in the rest of the Western countries. I like the fact that individuals like Jim Dobson and Pat Buchanan have a singificant following here in the US, whereas they'd be locked up for "hate speach" in most of the "enlightened" western world. I agree, our taxes are through the roof and the government is growing more oppressive every year, but I think we have a fighting chance here to make things right again; I don't see that possibility for the rest of the West.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Wingwiper - you make this too complicated. To understand if you are better off just check whether your income has risen faster or slower than the consumer price index (CPI). I think most private enterprise employees are doing worse than the CPI lately. And taxes are skyrocketing because of pork barrel projects and a huge governmental infrstructure that must be supported at constant or increasing growth rates (5%+).
When local taxes are so high that they are equivalent to holding a mortgage on your home then something is wrong. When people have to leave their homes or take windows out to reduce taxes then something is wrong.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Chief
Yes! SIMPLIFIED, the Federal Tax is much more SIMPLIFIED than what it was pre 1982.
YES! you will be working into June this year to eliminate your Tax burden, but that TAX burden is NOT the result of Federal Govt but more over Local and State. It is the accumulation of Sales Taxes, Payroll taxes, property taxes, Fuel Tax, consumtion taxes, sin taxes etc. We the comsumer has set the demands. Look at 9-11, Jesus, suddenly the Government was leaned on to become an Insurance agent and pay people for their losses. Say WHAT? People had their own Insurances and so didn't the Buildings, why was Government called upon at all? Who foots the bill? Now look at Katrina and why again was the Government called upon? We want government to feed us, protect us, help us, bail us out, lead us, think for us and then when we get the Bills we complain? No! Chief I am NOT trying to be funny nor am I trying to be a comedian, people get what they ask for.
Hillary Clinton may run for Presiden, after her husband sold us out to China, missing FBI Files, S&L Scandals, Loans, Rapes, dozens of Dead people and questionable circumstances, Pardon gates, Chinese in the White House, Chinese stealing Top Secrets in Los Alamos and trashing the White House and on and on we even have people who will support the witch. You have Ted kennedy a man who commited a Murder in every sense who gets re-elected term after term. Why? because too many of us just sit on our asses waiting for someone else to find the problems, fix them, write the letters, form the demostrations, speak out, vote and whatever else it would take to make the changes.
60% of this Nation feel NO need to Vote, 60% and then there is belly-aching for the entire term of the next Administration and yet 60% do NOT VOTE. I'll bet out of the 40% that do, you have 20% who can't read well, understand English, know who they are really voting for, know who the Current Senators of their state are. We have problems and it sure is not with Government it is with US. We get what we deserve.
Because this Nation has formed a 'I don't care' attitude, government has gotten longer reins and no one to really tug on them. We have abuses and we have people in Office who seek power. Look at the Mayor of N.O. talk about a total waste of flesh and blood. He is as worthless as tits on a Bull, but he was great at leading the charge of putting the blame on the Bush administration.
We need to Vote, ALL of us, for christs sake people in Iraq were being killed while standing in the voting lines and we sit in our living rooms bitching because we don't like something and then we get up and grab another Beer or switch the channel.
Cheif I really am not trying to be funny and have never been more serious, the Solutions start with you and me.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
wingwiper quote 1
"out of the 40% that do [vote], you have 20% who can't read well, understand English, know who they are really voting for, know who the Current Senators of their state are."
wingwiper qoute 2
"We get what we deserve."
Wingwiper, I agree with your sentiments entirely, but how is it that I'm responsible for the ignoramuses described above and have to bear the consequences of their stupidity? If you're after a more intelligent electorate, then we need to get rid of the "equal rights" amendment, "women suffrage amendment" and the "18 as voting age amendment" and let educated mature rational people make decision on running the country. I would actually propose re-instituting landholder qualifications for voting rights. Man, 1790s were THE times!
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NC
Nothing personnal, but people thought Iraq had no chance in making it, because they could only think like Tribes and not as a Nation, Hell, I think they may be better off than us in some aspects. Here in America we worry more about ourselves and think about ourselves and never ask how we are as a Nation, how far has this Nation gone, what has this nation achieved? we think as Individuals and not as a Nation at least the Itaqis think as tribes.
I have Three daughters, one is still in school and two are seeking their dreams, BOTH have attended colleges of their choice. My wife has a car, I have a car, two of my kids have cars. I have 3 JD Tractors, One Snow Mobile and toys. I live where I want, I work where I want to, I do what I want. I hear planes fly over head and I go about my daily business because I know some of those planes are military and they are OURS. I look at the young Americans and what the Navy has to offer them and I look at our fleets as compared to 100 years ago. I look at our Space Advancements, our Medical Achievements. damn not too many years ago I remember when Dr Barnard did the first heart transplant and the patient lived for about 30 days, I know a guy down the road who had a heart transpalnt 16 years ago. I look at that Lady who just had a 160 pound tumor removed or the lady who just had a New face. I look at the absenece of so many deseases that use to plague us. I look at where we are today and I think it has been worth every penny. Look at what we are doing right now, no stamps needed no long waits for replies. My buddies in Afghanistan and Iraq are just an email away. Everyone has a .mil address instead of APO and FPO. They still have the APO and FPO if you want to mail packages etc but communications is unreal just look at the all0in-one cell phones. I watch one of 180 plus channels, crystal clear and not like I am outside during a snow storm watching thru a screen door and only getting ONE channel in Black and white. I have no less than 15 guns in my house and I have no idea how many rounds of ammunition, all Legal. I can Vote, I write letters of dissatisfaction. People can bash their leaders and say what they want. That is what I pay for. Aircraft carriers and the planes are not cheap and either is Freedom. I am happy to pay and I am paying less, much less than what the tax burdens were 24 years ago.
Maybe we should stop just once a year a look back at the ground we as a nation have covered and a Nation is all of the people within her, all of their Hopes and their Dreams and the advancements made as they seek them out.
Would you rather pay NO TAXES and live in the drought stricten regions of Africa? China? I think I like it right where I am at.We thepeople are the Check and the balance of our Government and if we choose to sit and do nothing, our return is the same.
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Horse
I don't know if you are responsible but many of us are.
I was talking to a fellow worker the other day about the ILLEGAL INVADERS and a lady near by said ' I don't like talking about politics" I said 'Good! we aren't talking with you"
I have heard that statement so often and it is like saying politics is bad, should only be discussed in the dark or when you are alone and with no body.
My mom would go to Town Meetings and carry a bat. She spoke her piece and she raised Hell when something was said that was against her grain. She spent the years of World War II on the Hospital Ship U.S. Acadia and not too many people men or women could shut my mom up. I admired her for her spunk. This Nation needs 100 million more like my Mom. Government does what it does because it CAN. We, the people can change whatever we want to change, you read about these people damn near everyday. I have read about 10 year olds with spunk and how they made a difference. For too many of us in this Nation, they are just that STORIES and then we move on to our next destraction.
Horse how many people do you think you have affected right here on TP? Porobably more than you give yourself credit for and even if it is only one, then it os ONE more than what it would have been if you hadn't gotten involved. one brick at a time.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Wingwiper,
I'm flattered by your compliment, but I don't think I'm deserving of it. All people here are good Patriots; we all have different backgrounds and approach politics from the viewpoint that is specific to our circumstances. Some people are more concerned about economics, others are bothered by social issues. However, when you remind a reasonable person of a problem from a different perspective, they will most likely see your point.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
ww, if you are content to accept the steady sink into liberal social communism and the gradual confiscation of all but a few crumbs of your property and earnings. Enjoy the 180 channels of dish TV. You won't have much else.
Your eyes will be opened but too late I fear if you are a property owner who finds their estate exceeds the current ridiculous estate tax criteria. This is about the time that folks get really upset about how the jack booted thugs aka jbt's seize nearly all of your property at gun point, auction it off and throw you a few crumbs unless you have waded into the mind blowing,outrageously complicated estate planning laws and loop holes OR your last name is Kennedy, Bush, or someother political aristocrat.
EVERY tax, permit, license, fine, FICA, MEDICARE, bogus requirements for insurance, and parent subsidy for schools IS A TAX. ALL of them with the exception of the sales tax are illegal and unconstitutional as is income tax wage witholding (which AGAIN is a tax due to lost interest and use of the money).
As I stated earner in another post; with the exception of military service members, ONLY property owning, NON felon, non amnesty naturalized and native citizens should be allowed to vote.
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Chief
Whoa! we sure are Spirited.
Several years ago I went to Albany NY and I listened to the Greens Movement and a Sentator Bilden who claimed that the passage of the Federal Income Tax Amendment was illegal. I beleive from the top of my head that is the 16 th amendment which was passed by te Senate in February of 1913.I listened and I went on line and I did a lot of research on the so called Consumption Tax only laws. Sen Bilden claimed that the Ratification process which demand that 75% of all states ratify a Bill exactly as it is written before it can be made into an Amendment was NOT accomplished. He claimed he went to every single state (which were states in 1913) and researched their archives to find proof that they Ratified the Bill as written. He claims less than 27 states actually passed the Bill thru ratification, so he asked then how di it come to be an Amendment idf 75% did NOT pass it? so he went to the Federal Senate Logs and found NO ENTRY on a Senate Floor Vote for the 16th Amendment. Well! He sure put on a good talk and he claimed that all taxes unless they are consumption taxes or proportional taxes are ILLEGAL.
I knew a Judge who had not paid Federal Income tax in over 11 years and after he died he had a Court House named after him. I to this day have no idea how much of all this is fact or not. I was never able to find anything that really came out and said THE TAXES ARE ILLEGAL.
Chief you sound like you have lost Property or something. I have some acreage, not a lot but I do have some. I do no know what you are implying. I beleive we had a thread a few weeks back where we all talked about Emient Domain and I do know there is some Federal Investigation going on right now over the claims of Malls etc. I went to the websites that the person from NJ had posted and I read them. I did not find an abundance of abuse for the chart was all of the abuse Nationwide for the last 30 years or so. So fill me in, what is it that has you doing the ole Fire dance.
I am content and I am happy with my Federal Tax Load. I am not happy with the Local Taxes nor am I Happy with the Sin Tax, rooms and meal tax, sales tax, State Income tax or many other taxes that Tax Crazy Howard Dean Implemented or raised. School Taxes? I fight them all of the time and have gone head to head with our Superentendant many times. These are Taxes I am able to fight on a more one on one level and I do, I go to the Town Meetings and I stir up a lot of commotion and my Town has voted Down the budget almost every single year. Our problem, is the Union School Districts, you can get one Town to hear you, but it is hard to be able to be heard in every town of the Union School District. The Budget is usually released just days before Town Meeting and that doesn't give much time to stir up the minds of the voters in all of the towns. I still do not understand how there can be a Union of any kind between the taxpayer and the reciepent of the Taxpayers money. Kinda takes the control from the taxpayer and forces crap onto us that we do not want.
I got a bllgame to go to Daughter is pitching. So will check in later. i am interested to hear what is bugging you.
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05-10-2006, 06:38 
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